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How to show the subtasks in the backlog/sprint tree?

I just started my trial period and I find doing the most simplest things very hard (or counter-intuitive).

 

For example, I want to see the child tasks of a certain task from backlog or sprint and I wasted more than an hour trying to configure it.

So, I would appreciate if anyone can tell me how to do that.

 

Thank You.

P.S. In the last 30 min I have seen so many times the "Sorry, we had some technical problems during your last operation" error, that I am kind of afraid to click the buttons... is the trial a beta or untested product?

 

 

12 answers

Funny i encountered the same request today....and was looking for a veryfing answer in the community, however i can't find that...which is a bummer because the thing is, i think it depends on the type of board you use. And before anyone starts rambling and posing their opinion this what i found and encountered.

Team One uses a Scrum board in Jira and it doesnot show the sub-tasks in the backlog view, just the parent. Perfect nothing wrong there...

image.png

Team Two uses an Kanban board in Jira and it DOES show the sub-tasks in the backlog view. It features this little hook, when you click on it the subtasks are shown.......

image.png

So if the functionality is in there for Kanban why not for Scrum??

Because in my opinion this is usefull!

I agree that it would help. At least as a reducible drop down.

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The thing that is funny to me about this whole thing is that they actually provide this feature with seeing subtasks on the planning board through their Kanban board.  So Atlassian thinks it is important enough to have it there but not important enough to have it on the scrum board.

You have been asking why it is important to have.  I'll give you that answer.  It allows you to prioritize the sub-tasks within a task.  It doesn't allow you to prioritize a subtask above another task.  So that argument doesn't even hold water.  The feature is there.  Why can't you apply it to your whole system rather than half of it.

totally agree.

Like Phyllis Chang likes this

agree

agree

Like Dyego Mota likes this

As for the latest jira software version, although its not possible to see subtasks on the backlog as an independent line (and, agreeing with @Nic Brough, you shouldn't be prioritizing subtasks as independent items), it IS POSSIBLE to list subtasks of a given issue, and that may help to prioritize the issue, based on subtasks count, for example. It's a matter of adding the field to the backlog view:


  1. image.png
  2. image.png
  3. image.png

This way, on your backlog view, you should see subtasks this way:
image.png

Thanks Rodrigo, for your response. Rewording my question:

I have a story S with 3 sub-tasks T1,T2 and T3. T1,T2 are associated to a component API. S is to be completed in Sprint 1. I have not started Sprint 1 yet. 

I defined my board as based on the query : component = API

I expected to see : S with T1 and T2 displayed for the current sprint. But that does not happen. None of S,T1 and T2 are displayd

Have you added the field to the card layout?

Like Bav likes this

Hi Lakshmi,

Try to run the same filter used on your board at "Search for issues" screen. Can you see your issues and subtasks there?

This was just what I needed. Thanks.

Thank you Rodrigo Silva, your suggestion worked, and saved my time. Thanks Lakshmi for asking this question.

>You shouldn't be prioritising subtasks as independent items

 

No, no, no!

 

You cannot make assumptions about how Jira is and should be used; this is one of the main issues with Atlassian, as they try to force you to use their product according to their specific vision of project management.

A subtask can be as significant, or as insignificant as one chooses it to be, and should therefore be included in the backlog board if one so chooses.

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Thank you for this alternative!

I'm not seeing a an field option for Sub-Tasks. Am I missing something or does this need to be coded?

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist]  I am trying a slightly different situation - I have a story which is being worked on by multiple roles in my team ( a UI designer, an API developer, an Android developer etc). I have one or more sub-tasks for each of these teams in my story. I used component to identify whom the subtask was meant for. I would have liked to have a board which shows each team what the status of each sub-task was. What is the best way to do it

I think the best approach here would be to add query swimlanes to a board, based on components. Something like this:
image.png

The board will then look like this:
image.png

It should be noted that subtasks belonging to more than one component will be showed on the board on the top configured swimlane.

It should be also noted that the board filter must include issues of the required subtask issue type .

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2 votes

I am new to Jira and wanted to add on to this conversation because we are using Jira Cloud and I came across this same issue, but with the Default Business Board.  We are using the board to manage work of different IT Infrastructure groups and have a component for each group.

 

For this discussion please understand that I use Issue and Task interchangeably.

 

We may have an Issue (task) like "Close out old Change Tickets" that has a subtask for each component which equates to each of the group managers.  This subtask allows each manager to complete the subtask , yet the issue (task) would not be complete until all subtasks have been completed by the managers.

 

Managers use the Board to see their WIP, but when they view their issues (tasks) on the board, they do not see the subtasks.  They can see them by going to the issues section, but this in my opinion is counter productive to the board and seeing the work in progress.

 

There is no way to change options for the default Business Board, which I don't understand.  A Business Board has nothing really to do with all of the discussion above regarding if subtasks should be show on a board or not.  I'm not using Kanban or Scrum, just the default business board for manager work tasks.

 

Is there some way to show subtasks on a Business Board?

 

Thanks,

Charles

Another possible justification for at least displaying subtasks in the backlog view: 

The Planning Poker Plus add-on by Spartez cannot display any subtask info (ex. Key, Summary) in an asynchronous planning poker session because it pulls all its poker display info from the Jira backlog. That means when my team is estimating stories in Planning Poker, they won't even know if a story has a dozen subtasks unless they opt to click the story key to open the story (which very few will do). Consequently, lots of surprises during the planning meeting when my team realizes they underestimated a story that has a lot of subtasks. 

I'm making an assumption here, but if Atlassian can add the subtask relationship to the Backlog view, perhaps Spartez can then include it in their asynchronous poker sessions.

Here's Spartez' response on this issue, dated 10 May 2019:

Hi Jan,

Thanks for getting back to us with that information. We understand the issue now. Subtasks can be viewed in an interactive session, but not in an asynchronous session.

The reason for this is that we are pulling the information for Agile Poker from the backlog view. In a Scrum project, subtasks aren't visible on the backlog. So we can't display or estimate them. (more on that here)

It is possible to view and also estimate subtasks with Agile Poker if you are using a Kanban board. You could actually create a kanban board for this project, and estimate these subtasks from there. But we recognize this isn't an ideal workaround.

In the meantime, we do have a feature request open to allow estimating subtasks from a Scrum board. We have linked this ticket to that, and if any progress is made there we'll notify you - although we can't make any promises as to if or when this will be implemented.

Sorry we don't have better news. Please let us know if there's anything else we can do for you - we'll be happy to help.

Best regards,
William Schoepflin
Spartez Support Team

0 votes

You can't. 

The logic is quite simple - there's no need to see sub-tasks in the backlog.  You prioritise (i.e. shift the backlog around) at a story level.  By definition, if you have subtasks on a lower priority story, they cannot be more important than the subtasks on a higher level story.  As you don't need to prioritise subtasks at that level, showing them in the backlog is just noise, so the board doesn't bother.  (You can re-order them on the story)

On the technical error, no, a trial is the full version, and Atlassian keep it right up to date.  It is a form of beta or test-bed in some ways - Cloud gets regular deployments of the latest code every few weeks.  But it's tested code that Atlassian have a lot of confidence in.  If you continue to get these errors, I'd log it with support though, as getting them repeatedly is an indication of a failure on the server, and they need to look at those whether it's a trial or not.

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist]

"showing them in the backlog is just noise" - it is not noise because by default will be collapsed under the story.

"there's no need to see sub-tasks in the backlog" - there are people that check the backlog/sprints (upper management, customers that are billed based on that stories, etc); they see an estimate for a story and it seems to much (or too little); seeing just under the subtasks helps; (or maybe the story was badly split into subtasks, etc.) Just seeing them there is very useful.

 

Or maybe it is the wrong place to see that; it there another place where I can see the entire Epics -> stories/tasks -> subtasks tree?

I don't think a backlog view of a story is the right place to be re-estimating stories.  The backlog view is for prioritisation and planning a sprint.  If a story is the wrong size, then you'd normally go into it so you can re-size it based on all the information on it.  A summary, even with a pile of sub-tasks, doesn't usually tell you enough to re-size it.

The second point is much the same as the first.  If you need the detail, you probably need all of it.  The backlog is for planning, not micromanagement, billing or the other stuff that probab;y means you should be looking at the issue.

The short answer is that you simply don't need sub-tasks on the backlog.

 

Like Nikki Griffin likes this

Not being able to show tasks in the backlog view, even as a customizable option, is a big issue. The argument @Nic Brough [Adaptavist] makes – "there's no need to see sub-tasks in the view" is too far-reaching. It's like saying "there's no need for you to have orange juice".

The way I manage my sprints depends on me being able to see all my subtasks in the backlog in a list, and there's nothing inherently incorrect about it.

That reason is simple to understand as well – I may have a story that that spans multiple sprints and I want to decide which tasks to pull into a sprint. Now you may not think that that is a good way to manage stories, but I've collected enough data to show that it does. Presently there isn't a view that contains all my stories and it's subtasks (backlog + current sprint). The "backlog" view, a misnomer since it contains the sprint as well, comes close but doesn't contain subtasks.

A view is a view, a collection of objects on the screen that makes it convenient for a user to manage data, and ultimately decisions, on a screen. You and I can differ on what that is, but Atlassian needs to recognize that here instead of imposing what it thinks is the best way for me to manage sprints.

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You don't really explain why your subtasks are apparently so important.  To reuse your analogy, I'm not saying "there's no need for you to have orange juice", I'm saying that when you are looking at a backlog, and you decide you want some orange juice, you are then trying to rank that as more  or less important than desires for apple juice, milk, tea or beer.  In that view, the sub-tasks of getting oranges, juicing them, getting a glass, etc are really not relevant.

What it sounds like you have done here is got your Epic/story/subtask breakdowns done at the wrong levels.  "Story that spans multiple sprints" is a red flag for a start, and a desire to micromanage sub-tasks when their order is utterly irrelevant to a backlog is a strong indicator that something is wrong.

I don't need to explain why my subtasks are so important to me. They're important because I think they're important. You made the assertion that "there's no need to see sub-tasks in the view", which is a personal opinion at the end of the day. There is a need to see subtasks for a story and I can do that by opening the story up itself. I prefer not to do that and have my tasks listed below the story in the "Backlog" view. You may not like it, but that's your opinion, i.e., your "view".

When you assert "... have done here is got your Epic/story/subtask breakdowns done at the wrong levels", you are making the assumption about the way I run my sprints. As I said earlier, you may think that it's not a good way to manage stories, but the data I've collected shows that it is. It doesn't matter what you think ought to be better. I have a counterexample to show you're wrong. 

"A strong indicator" is just that – an indicator. Not a hard rule.

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I understand that it's an opinion, but I still cannot see any value in seeing the subtasks.  If you would explain how they are useful to you, I might, but until I see that, I can only assume that you're doing your estimation/ranking at the wrong levels.

It's fine if you can't see any value in my approach, but it's not fine you to claim that there can't be any value at all for the OP or anyone other than yourself.  

So demonstrate some.  My imagination may well be limited and I simply can't work out any real use for it, and that's why I say what I do.  If someone could show me a useful case, I'd accept it.  No-one has yet - they're usually not understanding the backlog evaluation process.

I don't know why they just don't have the option. It's ridiculous. It would not be hard to implement and then everyone can work in they way that they want to and find most efficient.

Because it's extra code for no benefit, all that happens is you get people asking why they can't rank the subtasks, and complaints that there's too much on-screen that doesn't do anything.

I don't want to rank them; i simply want to see the story and their sub tasks (as you can in the detail pane if you click on the parent) in the main backlog view. I don't want the ability to re-order or separate or any of that; i just want a collapsible list so I can see everything right there.

 

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I know, but how are you going to handle all the people asking why they can't rank them or get rid of the unneccesary clutter they cause?

 

First off, writing off a feature request because it generates complicated questions is a terrible rationalization to not implement it. Those complicated questions are independent, potentially worthy or necessary questions that when addressed ought either to make the product better or, at the very least, inform Atlassian of their choices.

Speaking more directly, since the proposal is to have an option to make subtasks viewable, they won't cause clutter when turned off. 

I know this has been discussed many times and the response has always been that sub-tasks are not part of planning, therefore not needed. We are trying to manage more then just development in the stories. We are including UX, development and test. I know this may not sound appropriate, but I'm not sure I'm that far off according to Dean Barker, Director of User Experience at Optum (see article). As Andy K mentions, shouldn't the user determine what is noise? It seems that managing tasks and resources (ux, dev, test)  that represent a story would defintely be part of planning. How would you suggest (besides links) that you organize the different tasks of a story?

Like Gerri Mills likes this

One reason you haven't considered is that when the sub-tasks are displayed you can easily drag them into Versions. And yes, I know you are going to say that sub-tasks should be in the same version as the story. Agreed.  But if you use the JIRA roadmap gadget to see how you are tracking, you want to see how many tasks overall still need to be done, not just stories. Have 10 stories left is very different to having 140 tasks left. Especially if the roadmap is used as a reporting tool for senior/ executive management to see how multiple projects are tracking as they close in on release date.

Better yet is would be great if sub-tasks just inherited the fix version of their parent, but that's another topic.

For what it is worth, better visibility of sub tasks is vital to my sprints when planning, they have separate estimates and often are not assigned to the same resource as the 'main' task.  It is necessary to manually total this for each resource and then add it to the estimate for any main tickets they might have.  I am not concerned about scheduling them independently of the main task, just seeing a true picture of my resource deployment for any given sprint.

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I find it more annoying that I can't see my sub tasks in the active sprint. Showing sub-tasks in active sprint lends itself to transparancy. We can easily have stories spanning a couple of days of work, sometimes more, and for that matter it's a benefit to communicate to your team mates exactly at which state you are with a particular sub task.

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@Nic Brough

I have a task which is split in to two subtasks - one for implementation & UT and one for the integration test. Both need to be finished for the task to be considered complete. Subtasks are with different developers. Now I want to see on my sprint if the estimated time for each developer is do-able (we are not running fully scrum compliant and we have so we don't know our sprint velocity). I can't do this since at the moment the subtask is not being displayed. 

I don't want to use an epic as the top level task because we use epics to group much larger collections of tasks.

That still doesn't justify it.  Especially as when you're doing scrum, the estimates are not done on a sub-taks.

Well how should I do the estimate then? Doing ti at the top level is not appropriate, since two poeple have to complete work before I want to consider the task complete.. buut both cacn work in parallel so one ticket doesn't work either.

Like André Drougge likes this

I have similar thoughts as Clair Convoy.

I'm open to changing the way we arrange sprints if JIRA doesn't support what I'm trying to make it do, but so far I don't know a viable alternative to my flow.

Firstly, estimations must be supported for sub-tasks. A user story should be defined with a narrow scope yet expressed in a way that non-technical people can handle, such as "As a user, I want to log in to application". This story must be split up into sub-tasks that relates to different developers, say one sub-task for the API work, another for the UI work. Those sub-tasks must be estimated separately.

JIRA has support for adding a story point field on sub-tasks, which is what we do right now, so we can make these estimations. This feels like swimming against the current since the parent story doesn't take these estimates into considerations - we have to look at all sub-tasks and manually add the estimates together and set the parent story estimate to the accumulated value. This is a real headache.

An alternative would be that the user story to "log in" is too wide of a scope and should instead be "As a user I want the API to have support for login" + "As a user I want the UI to support logging into application". This doesn't make sense since people who write user stories shouldn't need have that kind of technical understanding.

Nic Brough, how can this be addressed in terms of changing our development flow?

I am looking though the backlog view (since the sprint that is shown in the backlog isn't yet started) in order to get a sense of how many story points are assigned to each developer or each team, this is not possible since JIRA doesn't support sub-task level estimation and doesn't list sub-tasks in the backlog.

As seen earlier in the thread, the backlog isn't meant to be an overview of a sprint and their estimates, but rather a place to prioritise issues - what view should I be looking at when I want to see a list of _all_ issues (of any kind, including sub-tasks) and their estimations, for a sprint that hasn't yet been started?

It would be great if that view also would:
- Nest sub-tasks under its parent issue and not be seemingly randomly listed.
- Be possible to filter by assignee or label.

Thanks a lot!

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist]

As it was explained by several persons, there are a lot of real use cases why there is a need to have the sub-tasks visible from the Backlog, which is missing since years and we need to use some workaround to manage our requirements, whereas it could be so easier to handle our work by implementing that simple feature.

There are several tickets related to that missing features that Atlassian should really consider to implement.

And you response like "doesn't justify it", "extra code for no benefit" or other are a non-sense. Several explanations have been provided about the different benefits or the justifications why it must be there.

Hopefully one day Atlassian will listen their customer to implement such useful feature.

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Please show the subtasks in the backlog

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@Nic Brough

Please make sub-tasks visible in the backlog.  I should not have to justify this, but here goes:  Stories and their sub-tasks are refined over time; grooming takes time and occurs over days, weeks, or months. When the sub-tasks are not visible in the backlog the number of clicks and browser tabs I need to determine the state of the grooming is larger by many, many factors.

Like SETCCE ePero likes this

Here are a couple of reasons to display subtasks in the backlog view:

1. Assume you're reviewing the backlog for either backlog grooming or sprint planning. However, the backlog doesn't display subtask summary fields, so you create a new issue for an activity that already exists in a subtask. You've now created a redundancy in your backlog that you'll have to waste future time finding and reconciling.

2. Assume you're using the backlog for sprint planning. Since the backlog doesn't display subtask summary fields, you can't accurately estimate the scope or magnitude of the subtask's parent task.

3. As mentioned above, the Jira Poker plugin can only display fields that are displayed in the backlog. Consequently, a Jira poker session will not display subtask summary fields, yielding tasks that are underestimated during the poker session - which creates a whole multitude of problems down the line.

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we like to quickly skim the sprint tree and understand the total amount hours required for each story and then prioritize them. The parent story current does not include the subtask hours. 

 

we kind of use kanban and sprint toegether. Moving the story around does not update the Kanban board. Can you advise.

0 votes

Ah, now that's related to a different problem.  JIRA Software essentially does not support estimating at sub-task levels.  Move the estimates up and it'll work quite well.

"Moving the story around does not update the Kanban board" suggests that your boards are configured in a way that means some updates don't appear.  We'd have to have a closer look at the configs to help you with that one.

0 votes

I have a question: Is it possible to add a figure on the "main task box" to show how many sub-tasks there are? I want to do this to know which tasks to priorities on the Kanban Backlog board. 

Hi there,

i am a newbee with the scrum-board and agile working.

In the past we use a bug-issue for the main-development-branch and sub-bugs for every version (branch) we had to fix the bug.
Normally we only have the description in the main-bug no need to duplicate it in sub-bugs.

How do we do it now with scrum?

Should we now create multiple bug-issues and link them together?
We want the ability to see in which version the bug is fixed.
We need a status for every version.

Thanks.

0 votes
Mirek Community Leader Friday

I have been using Agile and Jira for about a decade (when there was Greenhopper even, no Boards that most of people from this topic probably do not know - except @Nic Brough {Adaptavist} probably) and I have my point of view on this.  I was reading this topic and I think it was nice peace of discussion, so just to clarify of some perspectives...

From the Agile perspective (in short):

Team (responsible for delivering specific tasks) have specific velocity and after time knows how much they can take to do specific tasks. There is also a project owner that works with the business (and stakeholders) should be aware what team is doing and prepare backlog for future sprints. By looking at burndown charts, velocity, team competences and availability we do planning and estimating. We also know how much time we have for each sprint - Usually from 1-4 weeks. We estimate Stories (not sub-tasks). If a story is created as a specific "wish" - e.g  "As a user I would like to see a button here and here, so that other team members can do this and that..  " then it is really good and does not need to have sub-tasks - those however I understand might be useful for someone that is working on it later after sprint started. We got demo meetings and retrospective meetings for some purpose, so that on next planning meeting we know how to estimate (if the story was for example not completed). The whole team is learning together how to plan, estimate and avoid big stories that should be already broken down into smaller ones. If we follow pure Scrum then we do not need to have sub-tasks in the view. 

From Atlassian perspective:

Questions like "Why if Kanban have this feature, Scrum cannot" from user perspective are fine, since we think that you have the code already, simply copy and paste it and vioola! .. No, that is not the case. Every feature that a software development team create (or build) need to be analyzed, tested and maintained later, so if in any way the request is not having value comparing to others it stays in the backlog (simple scrum thinking). Someone behind decide what we have and what features would be build based on current velocity and resources. And speaking of "what we have" ..

From Jira perspective:

Yes, it is possible to show somehow sub-tasks on the Backlog with some details. You can see which tickets have sub-tasks and see details. Below is a screenshot.

Baclog_SubTasks_Option.png

Of course there there might be people that say that this is not how it suppose to be showing, but I would say - yes it is there. It is in the backlog. No need to discuss if you extend the list on the backlog view (like in the Kanban view) or seeing the list of sub-task on the right panel. This is there. For me it is enough. I personally do not need sub-tasks in the backlog view, but if I just want to know if there are any I can simply get this view and be satisfied.

Hi Mirek,

could you please post "how to"-steps for dummies on how to configure that view that is shown in your left screenshot?

That would be very helpful! 

Thank you in advance ^^.

Mirek Community Leader 11 hours ago

There is actually only one screenshot (on view), but I guess you would like to achieve how to show the key on the story card. In that case the solution (step by step) was already provided by @Rodrigo Silva (see posts above)  

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