Answering your questions on changes to server and Data Center

Edit Nov. 6, 2020: Thank you for all your feedback. We’ve summarized and addressed your top concerns and questions on this thread.

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Hi Atlassian Community,

My name is Bryan Mayo and I’m the Head of Customer Support & Success at Atlassian.

As you might have seen in our announcement blog, we recently announced some changes to our server and Data Center offerings to sharpen our focus as a cloud-first company and deliver the world-class cloud experience you deserve.

We know that change of any type can be hard, and our teams at Atlassian have been working hard to make sure you have the resources you need to navigate these changes and plan for the future. You can visit our website to access these resources and get a summary of what’s changing, a detailed timeline, answers to common questions, and recommended next steps.

While we did our best to proactively answer your questions, we know there are some we missed. If you have any additional questions about these changes, please leave them below. We have a team of Atlassians standing by who are ready to help.

101 comments

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Hey Bryan,

What does this mean for Bamboo given there's no DC option available (we're on DC for Conf/Jira/Crowd/Bitbucket)? As a software company promoting it's tools primarily as software development tools, are you just not going to have a CI/CD solution for on-prem?

CCM

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I just saw the fine print.

"We plan to make Bamboo Data Center available in the near future. As details emerge, we will notify current Bamboo Server customers and continually update this FAQ. Until further notice, you will still be able to purchase new licenses for Bamboo Server."

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Thank you for your question!

Let's wait the DC release

Do you intent to accelerate your cloud infrastructure deployment for new countries ?

Atlassian hosting services in Canada (CLOUD-10947)

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Hi!

About the Russia installations and regulations ?

Created the next ticket:

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CLOUD-11061

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Will you fix all Critical bugs for that date?
Will you open code of Server products for Community or make it Opensource?

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Hello Sergey,

These are great questions, we can clarify as follows:

For the question regarding critical bugs;
We’ll continue to provide platform support (i.e. database, browser, Java) and bug fixes on server products between February 2, 2021 and Feb 2, 2022 PT. After that date, we will only provide security bug-fixes for critical vulnerabilities until the end of support date on February 2, 2024 PT.

In regards to releasing our Products via Open Source;
We do not plan to open source the code for our Server products; however, we will continue to provide the full source code for Server software, allowing for in-house customizations and modifications, as we do with an active Server license today.

Respectfully,
Stephen Sifers

Like • Angélica Luz likes this

When will you revoke access to the source?

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Dear Bryan,

In Atlassians data protection policies it is written "Under the EU-U.S. and Swiss-U.S. Privacy Shield Frameworks, we are responsible for the processing of information about you we receive from the EU, the UK, and Switzerland and onward transfers to a third party acting as an agent on our behalf." The US privacy shield is discarded by European Court of Justice. Therefore there is any possibility to store personal data in the US. Therefore it is forbidden for european companies bei law, to use US based services. So how do you think we should migrate to the atlassian cloud? I see any option for that as long as the resources are not hosted in europe.

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> I see any option for that as long as the resources are not hosted in europe.

beside the hosting in europe there must be no access to the data from outside europe. When Atlassian has the ability to access data it is considered to be data processing. It is a common misunderstanding that a data center in europe is sufficient.

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Hello @wolfgang mexner ,

Good question and the details for Atlassian's Privacy Shield compliance are covered under the GDPR section of the "Security practices" documentation in the Atlassian Trust center at the following Link:

https://www.atlassian.com/trust/security/security-practices#gdpr-compliance

Noting the following information is located in the subsection titled "Below are several GDPR initiatives for our cloud products:":

We support appropriate international data transfer mechanisms by maintaining our Privacy Shield certifications, and by executing Standard Contractual Clauses through our updated Data Processing Addendum.

And from the certification page the active certification details are:

EU-U.S. PRIVACY SHIELD FRAMEWORK: ACTIVE

Original Certification Date: 5/18/2017

Next Certification Due Date: 5/27/2021

Data Collected: HR, NON-HR

SWISS-U.S. PRIVACY SHIELD FRAMEWORK: ACTIVE

Original Certification Date: 6/28/2018

Next Certification Due Date: 5/27/2021

Data Collected: HR, NON-HR

Is there a specific requirement that is not listed or covered within these documents for the compliance rating that you noticed and we can provide clarification on?

Regards,
Earl

Hi Earl,

please have a look at: https://noyb.eu/en/cjeu

SCCs and BCRs cannot be used when it comes to the US. The CJEU was very clear in his decision. One could have serious doubts regarding Great Britain and Australia since both have excessive surveillance laws as well.

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@Earl McCutcheon

Any "Shield" certificate with the US has been invalidated by the European Court of Justice. There is no such thing anymore. Why are you nevertheless still citing it?

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This is an incredibly bad idea.

I've been an Atlassian administrator for several years now. I have worked with a lot of companies, big and small. Some on Server, some on DC, some on Cloud. Many, many companies do not want Jira Cloud. They need their data on a server they control, behind a firewall they manage, accessible without the internet. They have customizations that won't work on Cloud. They rely on Add-Ons that aren't available for Cloud. And many of them are companies that can't justify $40k/yr for Jira alone.

Killing off Server is an incredibly backwards, harmful move. I see no technical reason to do this, it seems solely to force people onto Cloud or Data Center, where you make more money. This move seems entirely driven by greed and profits, not what's best for the customer. Keeping Server alive, as a product, has minimal overhead for you as a company. It's basically the same code as Data Center, which you aren't killing (yet). So it's not like Server was losing you money by existing. The only reason to kill it is to FORCE people into things that make you more money. That's bad for the customer.

Before, a customer could try Jira On-Prem for as little as a $10 starter license. Now the cheapest option they have is, what, over $40k? That is insane.

This is going to leave a huge gap in the market that some other company is going to come along and fill, stealing all of those customers away from you. There are a lot of companies out there with under 200 employees that have no interest in Cloud and can not afford or justify the cost of Jira Data Center.

https://www.atlassian.com/company/values

"Don’t #@!% the customer"

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Hey Taylor,
I hear you - this is a monumental change, especially for our server admins. We’re deliberately investing in programs that ensure that you are set up for success for this transition - Cameron Deatsch, our CRO, and former Head of Server and Data Center captured these plans in his post To all server champions we want to hear from you. Read that post and considering applying to join this ongoing initiative.

Respectfully,
Stephen Sifers

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Data Center sits behind the firewall and offers low to no-downtime upgrades.

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Hey Stephen,

I tried to reply to the thread you linked, and seem to be blocked on doing so.

Taylor

Like • Steven F Behnke likes this

I have to agree with Taylor. It is an incredibly bad idea. I have read the Security and Compliance portion of "Debunking the Myths" and find it misleading at best. All of the "answers" are hearsay at best.

It claims that "typical" installations have one login that is shared. But I know that many don't. So that argument doesn't apply.

It claims that techs use "Shadow IT." In a secure environment, techs cannot bring shadow tools into the environment. Systems are monitored so that if someone DOES manage to bring one in, people are notified that a new program is running. If a tool is needed, it can be tested and approved, or, if it represents a security risk, the employee is notified.

No, the real fact is that even some security vendors do not understand security. Many believe that a firewall is a device designed to block things. Not true. A firewall is a device to GRANT limited access.

The "cloud" by its very nature is less secure than on-prem.

Not everyone is able to provide the same level of security that Atlassian cloud does, but many are able to provide even more security. The move to kill server prevents those that have that ability from keeping their data secure.

I am deeply disappointed in Atlassian for this move and will be looking for alternatives to recommend.

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Thanks for this post. Perhaps you've already digested the materials in our Cloud Trust center, but here is the link in case this site can provide you with any more information/assurances.

I also urge you to sign up to be part of our server champion community group so that you can give this feedback to the team. You can find signups and some more details about what we're doing to support our server champions through this transition here.

I hope these resources are helpful, and we will document your above feedback to the team. Sincerely,

Bridget

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Bridget,

Thank you for your info. I do not have my name on here or the name of any company I work with because of NDA agreements. However, I can tell you that in least a couple of environments, the development systems CANNOT access the Internet for ANY reason. Anything that needs to copied the dev environment must go through gateways systems that do not have direct access to the Internet.

A cloud version of Atlassian products would force a hole into the development environment, compromising security. You can have multi-factor, encryption and all kinds of security patches on top of that hole, but it is still a hole. And the company is not large enough to afford or need cloud versions.

However you try to paint it, it is still a grab for more money and, especially with the losses that have been felt because of COVID-19, it feels like you are trying to bite the hands that feed you in order to get more. Do not be surprised if those hands pull back and stop offering food.

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We have no interest in Cloud. In fact we were originally on Cloud and went to great pains to migrate to Server. Never been happier.

Cloud, in spite of the rhetoric, is a totally different product (somewhat dumbed-down to put it crudely) and will not serve the needs of many businesses.

This is an absurd move on Atlassian's part.

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Worst. Idea. Ever.

"We know that change of any type can be hard, " This change is much more unwanted than hard! Not everyone wants to move in the cloud. I really don't want to give up my server in any case and i don't want to pay for a much bigger license i need. Not everyone really "needs" a cloud. Many users are more than happy with a "normal server".

Can't tell in words how disappointed i am.

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How can you state you are GDPR compliant on https://www.atlassian.com/trust, while basic functionality is not. Some of the Critical GDPR / privacy bugs are open since 2004, and you don't care about them at all.

E.g.

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFSERVER-1882

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFSERVER-7837

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-36896

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-7776

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I am 100% in agreement with every word of your message @Taylor Huston .
Atlassian, stop thinking about money and think about customers. This change is insane, simply unfeasible for many clients! I hope they reconsider

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This is horrible!

We invested money and time on Jira and Confluence to setup our documentation and procedures using add-ons that are not supported on the cloud version. We also have other requirements that make the cloud version not suitable.

So, the only option left is to buy a data center version but the price difference is gigantic and won't happen.

To me, it's simply a decision of getting rid of "complicated" customers. Your message is heard loud and clear!

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Our confluence servers are integrated to other systems and databases and we will not change to a cloud based solution. So we have four years to find another product and for a migration. If this is really not a very early April joke, we'll say good bye Atlassian...

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Time to leave Atlassian. Any recommendation for alternative issue tracking software that is customer friendly? Dig up good 'ol Bugzilla again?

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It appears that our relationship with Atlassian now has an expiration date.

We will not convert to an off-premise solution for the reasons many have mentioned above.

A company that would strategically choose to take this route is not one that I will continue to waste my time implementing.

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We have integrated confluence in an complex network environment with databases and other services. We have no interested to open this network to the atlassian cloud. As university institutes with 250er license we simply cannot pay the datacenter license, we already pay 10.000$ per year (and started with 3.000$!!!). So also the last price increases had been heavy for us. We stayed simply because it was more expensive to migrate. Now it is clear - we have to develop a tool moving from confluence to some other solution which is more respectful with their customers. Good bye Atlassian

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I agree absolutely with @Taylor Huston.

For years Atlassian was increasing prices on the server products. It is not a good decision. It's like a punishment for use these product branches. It's a dirty movement with fatal consequences for some bussiness and employments.

I feel very frustrated for the situation.

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@Taylor Huston brings it to the point.

I currently work in a small pharmacy and we're using the server version (GDPR and some funny german regulations about medical data).

Cloud is absolutely no option - not for me, not for the owner, especially not for the Apothekerkammer.

Today I stopped the project to migrate other users than the IT to confluence. I think we stick to the current SharePoint-installation or search for some alternatives.

I fight for every penny in the IT and I cannot argue with the owner about this.
We use Jira Service Desk with 2 users, Jira Core with 4 and planned to migrate round about 80 employees to Confluence - sorry, but with this announcement I'll stick with the current Jira-Server till EOL and use SharePoint for my co-workers.

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What is the roadmap for handling all of the deficiencies with Cloud? There are many configurations and customizations that cannot be handled by cloud but are available in server.

Like • Stephen Sifers likes this

Hello @Atlassian Assist Bungie ,

You can check out what’s new and what’s on the horizon for Jira Cloud on our public roadmap

Regards,
Earl

What is the roadmap of the DC releases?

I mean about release cycle.

Like • Tobias Ravenstein likes this

Hello @Gonchik Tsymzhitov ,

You may find the roadmap for all things Data Center at Data Center Roadmap. Though this won't cover the exact release dates you're looking for, it will list the quarter the features are expected.

Respectfully,
Stephen Sifers

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@Stephen Sifers Thank you for that link :)

Like • Stephen Sifers likes this

I don't want to paint things too black, but if you filter the roadmap by "Future" status, there are very few results, and for e.g. Confluence "No Results".

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No "Future" also for Service Desk...

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Sometimes black paint is the right color.

JAC is our friend: https://jira.atlassian.com/secure/RapidBoard.jspa?projectKey=CONFSERVER&rapidView=2529

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Unfortunately this development was already been visible during the last years. I remember very well the time when a new Confluence Server release has created some kind of "Buzz" in our company, as everybody was amazed and happy with the new features!!! That is history...

Version 6.x brought collaborative editing in 2016 - since then no such "big" feature has been introduced but the pricing increased and increased...

https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/confluence-release-notes-327.html

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Feeling a bit betrayed on this one. As a nonprofit, we have to keep costs down, so the server option made this solution possible. We are also technology centric, so hosting ourselves is not a problem. We're barely months into implementation, and now this. This pricing change quadruples our cost. Are there going to be academic/public library discounts in the new pricing model?

Atlassian will definitely lose customers whose security policy prevents them from keeping this kind of data in the cloud, as well. While I can sympathize with the difficulties of developing for both hosted on on-prem systems, these types of systems really need to have both options.

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At the very least I did find reference to some plans for nonprofit and academic discounts. That will be helpful. Since we are still in implementation (albeit deeply), we can use the free cloud migration as a way to evaluate whether the cloud version will work for us or if we should look elsewhere.

Like • Dalectric likes this

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the post. Yes, your server discount will still apply if you continue to remain on your server license (and you can continue to do so for three years). Additionally, it sounds like you found our academic and community licenses for cloud, but I'll share that resource with you as well in case it is helpful.

Let me know if I can help with anything else.

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Same issue here... what will be the non-cloud options for non-profit organisations?

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Same here.
We have a community license for non-profit organisations.
@Maggie, will we pay after february or our discount still apply until february 2024 (apps include) ?

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@Maggie This is probably my biggest concern. What is the plan for community licenses after server is gone? Some of us simply cannot and will not go to the cloud. And frankly, I'm tired of the Atlassian Team asking why we won't go to the cloud, because I think your customers have given you PLENTY of reasons that are indisputable.

Are you now telling non-profit customers they must pay full price if they have compliance and regulatory requirements that require them to stay on-premise?

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Based on their FAQ there will be no community edition of data center for non-profits. So we really would have to pay the full price for the data center edition as non-profit!

And please stop referring to the non-profit discounts for the cloud edition. Hear your customers!

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Howdy Y'all,

@Henno Gous , @Guillaume Bourelly , @Alex Janes , @Thomas Kofler , @Sean Hanson

We have had a few similar questions in the thread relating to the non-profit licensing and I am relaying the information here to make sure everyone sees it as there will be more information on this coming soon.

The previous comment for reference can be viewed here:

https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Feedback-Forum-questions/Re-Re-Answering-your-questions-on-changes-to-server-and/qaq-p/1512880/comment-id/2336#M2336

Noting:

Currently, the pricing model for Community and Academic licensing is being applied to the cloud offering and detailed further in the following thread and announcement:

Academic and Community discounts now available in the cloud!

Atlassian Community License Request

However, we are in the process of actively exploring a better offering for non-profits and we will come back to this talking point with an update in the very near future. In the meantime, feel free to take full advantage of the community server licenses which aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

Regards,
Earl

Like • Walter Buggenhout likes this

@Earl McCutcheon The problem is, non-profits move slowly. Even more than that, healthcare based organizations move slowly. In my case, I am both, and 1 of 2 IT people in my org. I need time to make decisions and prepare new systems for compliance reasons.

Per my previous comments, the cloud is not an option for us. And I'd rather not dive into again why the cloud is not an option for us.

Since it will take me a year or two to shift systems, I need to start planning NOW. Not in 2023 when you MIGHT be ready for HIPAA.

So, I need some options sooner rather than later for this. If non-profits have to pay full price for datacenter now to stay on premise, they we have to pay now. But, if that's the case, I can't continue with Jira, especially if I have to pay full price.

This all comes back to, why are these things only being considered after the announcement? For a company that makes project planning software, you sure don't seem like you planned this out.

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I volunteer for a nonprofit and they would be willing to move to the Cloud but only if the pricing was incredibly nominal or free. It would actually benefit the company greatly to move to the cloud as there would be less overhead for them but the pricing would have to be worth it.

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I volunteer for a nonprofit too. Cloud is no option there. Hope that you think about the impacts and find finally a way to support the on premise world still. It feels like you get the offer to rent your living room to public if you are not currently using it. I would not agree to that deal by heard and move out with tears in my eyes....

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I am currently using Cloud and migrating to Server. Even with this news, I am going to continue. Here is why:

Custom HTML
Custom Stylesheets
The ability to hide internal comments from anonymous visitors
Custom URL - makes a HUGE difference in SEO with Google.
Global Search/Replace plugin is much better on server

So we will stick with server "as-is" until cloud (or another company) supports these things.

I understand the decision, but the cloud version sucks right now.

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Yeah. Been there too. Server is just a more functional product even before you get into the massively powerful addons that are only supported on server.

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I would love to hear the answer to the question: What are you (atlassian) going to do about the need to customize cloud? is it planned? When?

Personally, I think they would have been smart to spin off the server product into its own company.

Like • Taylor Huston likes this

The pricing tables mention that 'our discounted Academic and Community licenses will be adjusted accordingly'. If groups have charity community licenses with no cost currently, will they continue to be no cost after this coming February for the 3 years until server products end in 2024?

We'll definitely be looking at moving to the cloud community discounted program, but as a non-profit it will take time to move and get funding in place.

Thanks!

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Hello @Cortland Bolles , @Ken Swarner , @tedcowan ,

Y'all had a similar question concerning the Community and Academic licensing.

Currently, the pricing model for Community and Academic licensing is being applied to the cloud offering and detailed further in the following thread and announcement:

However, we are in the process of actively exploring a better offering for non-profits and we will come back to this talking point with an update in the very near future. In the meantime, feel free to take full advantage of the community server licenses which aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

Regards,
Earl

Terrible idea.

What about installations that require data and documents to be kept locally and not not on some server somewhere on foreign soil?

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They don't currently support data localisation.

Like • Taylor Huston likes this

Thanks for the question. We will continue to offer Data Center, our self-managed enterprise edition for those of you who need to maintain control of your data, and we will offer loyalty discounts. I'd also encourage you to continue to check out our cloud roadmap to see what is upcoming as we continue to work towards meeting more of your needs in cloud.

Data centre lowest tier is 500 users.

What about small to medium sized businesses with the same localisation issues?

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The loyalty discount is a joke for small teams.

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Small teams is exactly how I began using Atlassian products. If the server license had not existed eight years ago I would never be a customer now.

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Best of luck Atlassian but this is not a journey I am interested in.

To be completely honest, this feels like a complete revenue raising initiative that is going to burn bridges with existing customers.

I have implemented confluence server in every job I have been in for the better part of the last 10 years and have always had ongoing maintenance for everyone of them. I love the product but not enough to fork out the exorbitant fee of Data Center. I could get it if you just increased the price of Server (by an acceptable amount) but this is just crazy.

I have absolutely zero interest in cloud and in some instances cloud is not ever an option due to internal requirements to keep the sensitive data on prem.

At least I have a year to find an alternative to Atlassian products and migrate off then decommission the existing servers we have.

I want to use substantially more colourful language to describe my feelings towards this but that would not be appropriate or helpful.

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Thank you for the constructive comment. Our ultimate goal here is to unleash the potential of every team, and this shifting of investments is simply to support where most teams want to be today and in the future.

That said, we really empathize with your frustration here, it is a huge change that (of course) Atlassian put a ton of thought and care into, but that still doesn't make it easy to hear for our longtime server customers.

We know it take time to figure out the right decision for you and your company, and in the meantime we are doing everything we can to support server admins like you. If you haven't already, read out this post and please consider signing up to join our server champion community group.

Sincerely,

Bridget

Like • Gülçin Nacak likes this

Bridget, I think a lot of the frustration comes from the realization that this change wasn't done to help us, it was to keep your support costs lower and increase Atlassian's value to shareholders. Forcing a move to DC just to get support past 2024 (while increasing the cost of both Server and DC at the same time!) just doesn't sit right when Jira Cloud isn't as fully-featured. Is the code base so significantly different that Atlassian couldn't offer Server and DC? If it's not, then this is simply an attempt to force SMBs to a less-functional cloud product. So many companies have been hit very hard by the pandemic, and increasing costs now, of all times, feels...wrong.

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> Our ultimate goal here is to unleash the potential of every team,
> and this shifting of investments is simply to support where most
> teams want to be today and in the future.

a quite selfless decision from Atlassian ...

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> Forcing a move to DC just to get support until 2024

I'd like to notice that Server is supported till 2024, the is no EOL for Data Center, so having an on-premise installation (using DC license) with maintenance and support beyond 2024 is absolutely possible.

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Marek, I think everyone here is aware that we could move to DC if the cloud offering cannot meet our regulatory / security / privacy needs. Two problems though:

1. Compare the pricing for a SME with say 20 Server users currently versus the minimum tier of 500 users for DC. Small companies simply can't afford that.

2. Why would anyone trust Atlassian ever again? Who would be naive enough to think that they're not going to get another cheery email in a year or two's time saying that DC is being dumped?

I understand that we are the most difficult customers. Big companies have full IT teams and even develop their own add-ins. Cloud customers are cookie-cutter, lowest common denominator accounts. Cheap to have. We're the ones who test your product development teams, and people like me who have been an customer and admin for 17 years are the ones who grow into bigger businesses and recommend you.

So I think this is a very short-sighted decision.

Best of luck.

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> 2. Why would anyone trust Atlassian ever again? Who would be naive enough to think > that they're not going to get another cheery email in a year or two's time saying that
> DC is being dumped?

or maybe the price for DC will be increased to 100.000 or 200.000 USD a year. Who knows? That's really a matter of trust. Beside of the fact that we are not going to pay for DC version as a small company.

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The matter of trust is crucial here. Atlassian made power-play move - take all of it or leave it. This is probably the crucial thing - open source software maybe is not so great as Atlassians, but it can't be taken back from you, because few dollars more was too shiny for few corporational gentlemens. Companies are really concentrated on having control over their own infrastructure - instead of being on the mercy of "smart" decisions on Atlassian board - and that situation shows it. This move is going to be harmful for Atlassian, because Jira Server was the main reason to invest in any other tools from Atlassian family. Without it - Service Desk is just a weak solution, Bamboo is easily (and better) replaceable by Jenkins, Bitbucket by git, Confluence by any wiki. Are we loosing on that change? Yes. But are we loosing on change served to us by Atlassian more? - yes. Whatever Atlassian team is doing here regarding "information policy" - we know that decision had been made in a different place and we are just listening propaganda department, not real decision makers (they won't talk with us). That decision leads to end of that constant rise in market value that is so precious for you gentleman, just give us some time to find replacement for you - and it is funny to think that just few weeks ago you were unreplaceable. You have had a chance to be an "objective" broker on the market - and you wasted that potential. Now you are just Titanic - and plenty of copanies is going to try to leave it before ending act.

Problem here is not technical one but strategic one. What is the goal of Atlassian? To counterbalance position of partners in that equation? What is the future you are preparing for us? What are you going to do to people on the ground - to make their job and propagation of technology easier? Jira Server grants us flexibility. It is not something that is needed to steal from you revenue from Cloud or DC - it is just to be better in adjusting tool to specifics of each business. You are not able - even by using all that data you can gather - to fulfill that gap. That plenty of solutions around JIRA - it is because of that - we made JIRA standard in the industry and we provided business expectations from a wide range of expectations we have gathered and we are gathering every day. Part of the Atlassian success lies in that. By changing that deal - you are eliminating independent consultants from the business - making market harder for them. Maybe you consider it as a weak spot but I can assure you - you are not able to fill that gap via Cloud or by sharply rising prices with DC. There are people that do not consider JIRA as a great tool - but as a tool to reach some business goals. If I do not have that flexibility - you are deleting crucial (but not straightforwardly) reason of your success - that flexibility that granted us clients in a very competitive segment of the market. With cloud - we do not have flexibility. With DC - we do not have competitive prices. And if you know - you are just playing against us - consultants - and our share in a deal that you would like to direct toward DC or Cloud. Finally: maybe you do not know that business after all? Among consultants are smartest people I know - they are going to find a way.

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open source software maybe is not so great as Atlassians, but it can't be taken back from you

To be fair, server customers have bought a perpetual license and got access to the source code, so this puts them in situation that is not so different from an open source software that is being discontinued.

Of course, there is no community to take over development. I haven't checked, but I suppose Atlassian's license agreement doesn't allow that their customer work on the source code together, or at least it would be difficult.

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@Metin Savignano - we (both) know that such solution (without central or community support) can work in short term, maybe middle term, but for a long term you must transition if you want to keep the pace. But thank you for your clarification, you are of course right.

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How can you expect your customers to be ok with the HUGE price increases that will come from this ... especially during these times?

For instance this is what we pay annually for our Atlassian Products and apps.

Server - Total $38,643
Confluence - $33,298
Jira Software - $5,345

To move away from Server to Data Center and retain all our current functionality would be ...

Data Center - $97,968
Confluence - $74,496
Jira Software - $23,472

To move to Cloud and lose much of our functionality as the apps don't exist

Cloud - $137,640
Confluence - $128,840
Jira Software - $8,800

Just to move to Data Center it would cost us over 2.5 times as much. There is no way that our organization will go ahead with that. They will tell me to start shopping around and planning a migration. Given that how does this fall in line with your value of "Don’t #@!% the customer"? Please, I love your products, but you are seriously missing the mark on not "#@!% the customer".

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Yeah, this is not great. We use add-ons that are absolutely not available in the Cloud version. If we have to change our workflow, we might as well look at other products.

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I just moved us from Cloud to Server because the add-ons were not available in Cloud. The add-ons allowed us to be 21 CFR Part 11 compliant. I can't go back to cloud unless that offering seriously ups its game, and I can't afford to go to Data Centre. Unless something changes it seems I'll have no choice but to move elsewhere. Sharepoint maybe.

How about splitting down the DC 1-500 user pricing into smaller user number categories so that it accommodates the SME companies who are currently using Server?

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Agree, Geoff. We have a 100-user seat and are back at 49 active users. The price increase to DC is insane.

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Agree. In many respects server is just a better, more functional product. Moving this expense to opex is just not an option for us. Especially not considering we would pay double or more or weaker functionality.

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@Stephen Reece @Geoff Daly (Admin) What are the server apps that you use that are not available in cloud? I'd be interested in understand what apps you are using that don't have any cloud options or alternatives.

Like • Stephen Sifers likes this

It's not the the apps. Some is just configuration

Custom HTML - I want to add a bit of jQuery to the page to tweak some details
Custom Stylesheets - I want to hide buttons from remote users and make the styling different, especially for common macros
The ability to hide internal comments from anonymous visitors!
Custom URL - makes a HUGE difference in SEO with Google. The cloud version is constantly screwing up our search results
Global Search/Replace plugin is much better on server

Are you going to support these in cloud? If yes, when? If no, can you spin off the server product into its own company?

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We use "Jeditor" and "Links Hierarchy" on Jira Server that do not show cloud versions. We also use database tools like BIRT and ODBC that are not configured for cloud use.

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Some examples mandatory for us:

* Confluence: "Space privacy - extranet" being able to see/mention ONLY users with permission in your spaces

* JIRA: Tempo Budgets . No alternative with all features

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@Emilee our Salesforce CRM connector add-on is one of the biggest. along with Epic Roadmap and Workflow Enhancer. There may be Cloud add-ons that approximate it, but there are limitations that add-on devs face with Cloud that they do not face with on-prem.

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@Stephen what about custom workflows in Jira and a good look and feel which really works.

Confiforms is a big one that we use and while there is a Cloud version it is more limited and doesn't work at all with the new Fabric editor since you messed up nested macros.

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@Eric Tolliver regarding Links Hierarchy, the app is available on cloud as a separate listing and this may make it harder to find. You can check it out at Links Hierachy Jira+Agile (Cloud)

I am a home user. I have repositories that I do not want stored in the cloud. I want them on my own server, that I can be sure is not being accessed by anyone else, and that I know will be accessible 24x7 regardless of any Internet outages. I have a Bitbucket Server Starter License, for which I pay $15 a year, and I've been an Atlassian customer for 8 years. From the pricing tables it looks like I will now be billed $1650 a year. So a 110x price increase. ONE HUNDRED AND TEN TIMES, or ELEVEN THOUSAND PERCENT. Seriously. I am a home user, I am retired and I don't have that kind of money. Way to go Atlassian. I'll be moving to Github or Gitlab

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It is now 3 days later, and I have moved my repos to my own Gitlab server. Was it painless? well in all honesty no, but there's a lot of useful help out there and it's just a case of resolving each issue as you go.

My server is running Debian buster. It's an internet facing machine and has other things running on it (Jenkins, Bitbucket, Apache - including a number of Rails sites). This is probably the first hurdle. If you were starting with a clean machine then things would be easier. I followed Gitlab's instructions to install a gitlab-ee package. There are some pre-reqs like postfix and ca-certifcates which I did first. The instructions explain this. Running the server did not immediately work and that's probably because my install didn't complete, which is probably due to me already having some LetsEncrypt certificates and already having port 80 and port 443 in use. So I followed lestEncrypts own instructions for getting a new cert (more on this later). There are also issues with setting up the service to start Gitlab and getting it to run on boot (maybe due to my partial install).

Next I wanted to not use a local PostgreSql but my own server which is not internet facing. That's not too hard though, edit Gitlab's rb config file and reconfigure. I created an empty database and Gitlab automatically migrated it. I also wanted to use Apache not nginx and again that's just a config rb change and a bit of Apache set up - tricky bit is the port redirecting). My vhost config may help some:

<VirtualHost *:<myport>
ServerName gitlab.<mydomain>
DocumentRoot /opt/gitlab/embedded/service/gitlab-rails/public

ErrorLog ${APACHE_LOG_DIR}/error.log
CustomLog ${APACHE_LOG_DIR}/access.log combined

ProxyPreserveHost On
AllowEncodedSlashes Off

<Location />
Order deny,allow
Allow from all
Require all granted
ProxyPassReverse http://127.0.0.1:8080
ProxyPassReverse https://<mydomain>/
</Location>

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{DOCUMENT_ROOT}/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteRule .* http://127.0.0.1:8080%{REQUEST_URI} [P,QSA]

RequestHeader set X-Forwarded-Proto "https"
RequestHeader set X-Forwarded-Ssl on

# Cert location
SSLEngine on

SSLCertificateFile /etc/letsencrypt/live<mydomain>/fullchain.pem
SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/letsencrypt/live/<mydomain>/privkey.pem

Include /etc/letsencrypt/options-ssl-apache.conf

</VirtualHost>

I've replaced my real domain name and real port number here. I also needed to enable the request_header module. Because I had already created my letsencrypt cert, it was in the folder listed here (/etc/letsencrypt ...)

That was pretty much it

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Next I need to move 65 repos over. That's pretty painless but quickly threw up another issue. By default Gitlab stores its data in /var/opt/gitlab. On my machine /var is small - I only have log files there. I needed another config rb change to set my Gitlab data folder to /home/gitlab/git-data (I just moved /opt/var/gitlab/git-data to /home/gitlab where I have a load of space). Before this I was constantly filling my disk and causing upset everywhere.

Migrating repos is easy, but remember a repository in Bitbucket is a Project in Gitlab. The best metaphor for a Bitbucket project is a Gitlab Group. I used projects in Bitbucket (e.g ruby, python, node etc for the type of repository) I created groups in Gitlab. Then I tried to migrate my projects. There's a mechanism for importing projects directly from a Bitbucket Server and I started off using that. It needed a bit off setting up - creating personal access tokens, but that's quite straightforward. However for some reason the import page only showed me about 20 projects. I imported these OK, but maybe it was because I was filling my disk up, I couldn't automatically import the other 40-odd.

So Importing one project at a time was the way to go. It's not hard, just give the url for the .git file in it's Bitbucket location and import it. Look out for not getting your credentials right though - the import will go quiet on you and will take 3 hours to time out - or you delete the project and try again. I did this yesterday evening while there was nothing on TV - it's a mindless repetitive task.

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Then today I updated the repos on my dev machine. I'm still using SourceTree, but if Atlassian stop supporting that, I'll look for another git IDE - sorry I can do the command line, but why complicate things! Here it's again straightforward and my one stumbling block was ssh. I needed to add a rule on our home router to NAT the port I would using in my git urls (e.g git@mydomain>:<an ssh port>/<project>/repo.git if you can make sense of that. I have not opened up port 22 to the outside world, and I have locked up the port I use so that an rsa key must be used. It's not hard, just a setting in /etc/ssh/sshd_config and make sure your id_rsa.pub is imported in Gitlab. The sshd_config setting is:

#GitLab
AuthorizedKeysCommand /opt/gitlab/embedded/service/gitlab-shell/bin/gitlab-shell-authorized-keys-check git %u %k
AuthorizedKeysCommandUser git

It basically tells ssh to run gitlab-shell-author... to check keys.

Now I edited the settings for all my repositories through Sourctree. Pretty mindless, open each repo, select repository setting edit the "origin" remote path to look like the git url I showed a few line above here. Change the Host type to Gitlab CE and add my own user name. Then I tried a fetch to verify all was good. Oh, to get the url, I opened up the project in Gitlab's web page and copied the clone url to the clipboard - in some cases I have renamed the repository, but in others I just edited the url, changing my sub domain from the bitbucket one to the gitlab one and changing my port (remember this is the ssh port not an https port)

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So there you go. I said it's been 3 days, but I've been out for a walk most of today and in reality it turned out to be just about 6 hours of work and most of that was figuring out how to get over the hurdles I'd put in place myself (a server with other stuff on it, a different Postgresql Server, Apache rather than nginx and of course not having a big enough disk).

I still have some work to do. My Jenkins configs will need to be changed so they use the Gitlab server rather than Bitbucket and I will have to change settings on my Rails sites so Capistrano deploys from Gitlab. Again, not too hard. I may miss a few settings, but of the 65 repos I have perhaps half are projects I have not worked on for years.

Oh, and one big plus that I can see: Gitlab is a standard Linux apt package. It's updateable just like other packages. There's just one config file, which I have kept a copy of. Bitbucket used to be half a day's work to update.

I'm still following this thread, so if anyone has issues, I will try to help (assuming I can actually remember how I got round every problem!)

Cheers

Derek

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Having an on-prem Bamboo build agent is a must for our product as one of our compilers needs to access data sources and deploy binaries across VPN tunnels.

Like • Jeremy Swan likes this

I think so the you will start to use Bamboo DC, it will be just previous Server release, but with new name :)

Can I host Bamboo DC in my own data center?

@Greg Johnston in theory yes. But not much is known about exactly how Bamboo DC will differ from the Server version yet.

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The difference is that it will be priced higher.

Like • Dalectric likes this

At least twice as high, and if you don't keep paying, it will just stop working.

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How will you support users that have export compliance issues like ITAR or anything defined as Controlled Unclassified Information?

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As nearly a month has passed since your question, in a way you got an answer to the question.

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Well we should have seen the writing on the wall. Many tickets open for over 10+ years.

All we have seen in the cloud offering is non-stop UI changes and limited features. The UI has now gone full circle to the horizontal bar at the top again, except the handy "Issues" button is nowhere to be seen. In an ISSUE TRACKER, that's kind of an important feature to put in an obvious place.

You've lost a customer. The only thing to see now is how quickly I can get out.

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To be 100% honest, I've given their cloud services so many looks over the last couple of years expecting that for sure, by now, they can basically match what their servers counterparts can do but I come back disappointed each time.

I've given their cloud services many chances but the problem with it in our case is just the simply inherent issues with putting particular data on the cloud and the lack of being able to customize things which are important to us. It's definitely useful in a lot of cases but it's just not for us. And after 2/2024, I guess that means Atlassian products won't be for us any longer. :(

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I'm a really frustrated small organisation customer, under 10k spend per year. Data sovereignty issues have turned me off cloud and unless you can confirm the ability to specify data localisation we will be looking at alternatives.

Really underwhelmed that you released it on a weekend too, feels like you don't respect your customers.

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Really underwhelmed that you released it on a weekend too, feels like you don't respect your customers.

There was no mistake with them doing that. They know what they're doing.

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Have you taken a look at cloud pricing? Cloud is no sensible option, unless you have three to four times the money to spend.

Like • Dalectric likes this

I have a question - looking at this page, it looks like the majority of updates to the server offerings will end on 2/2/22 along with all updates to end on 2/2/24. After 2/2/24, will we still be able to use our on-prem server products (in my case, Confluence and Jira Service Desk) but updates and fixes will cease to continue?

As for my own feedback, no one likes price increases - especially very steep ones, and no one likes to be told that the product they've used for years is going to stop being supported. But I am thankful that you've given us a few years to get things figured out, we've seen worse from other companies. There was no mistake for the reason as to why this news was released on a Friday afternoon/evening in the US (making it very late Friday night to early Saturday for the rest of the world's majority). But it looks like the announcement did good things to your stocks so mission accomplished, right?

But the truly insulting part of this is the continued insistence that we know nothing about "the mysterious cloud" and why we should just go to it since Atlassian thinks they know better than us. I would double check with your marketing team to make sure they know it's not 2015 any longer. The whole "why you shouldn't be afraid of the cloud" tactic is becoming antiquated and anyone in charge of a large number of (potential) licenses knows the risks, the advantages, and the disadvantages of moving to the cloud by now. This move is all a money grab, don't pretend otherwise.

In 2020, especially well into the COVID-era, you are already in the cloud, in the process of moving to the cloud, or staying with your on-prem server for a very good and calculated reason. This whole thing isn't going to force us to store our crucial and confidential data on your cloud, it's going to force us to either continue using your unpatched software on an ever increasingly secured server (which sits right next to me) or will make me look at another product to go with.

We're not afraid of the cloud, we use the cloud already with nearly 100% of what we do in our company. I appreciate that you offer your products on the cloud for those which works best for them. But your cloud offerings fall short in so many ways important to us, compared to the server services. I'll leave it with this: if you didn't offer your server software in the first place (and only had the cloud offerings), we wouldn't have gone with your products at all due to their shortcomings.

(New account created for this post as I choose not to have my real identity revealed)

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Hello @Tom Shaffer

Even with three years to prepare for these changes, we understand that not every customer will be ready to switch from our server products to our cloud products. And, you may have business requirements that might prevent you from ever operating in the cloud.

Between February 2, 2021, PT and February 2, 2022, PT, we will continue to provide support (i.e. database, browser, Java) and bug fixes for server products.
After February 2, 2022 PT, we will only provide security bug-fixes for critical vulnerabilities until the end of support date on February 2, 2024, PT.

After that date, your server products will reach the end of support, and no further product updates will be released. Noting that the Server license is perpetual, meaning you maintain permanent access to the application and you only loose support and upgrade options if you choose not to upgrade the license, so if you are operating internally removed from public access, and have no need for continued support, local maintenance may meet your needs at no cost to you.

We are also strengthening Atlassian Data Center by making some of our most potent apps available natively rather than additional add-on apps and offering Priority Support with Data Center subscriptions for most user tiers. To support this continued innovation, we are increasing the price of Data Center subscriptions on February 2, 2021 PT.

If migrating to the cloud is not an option for you, we offer a Data Center loyalty discounts For annual Data Center subscription purchases or renewals before July 1, 2022, PT for up to 1000 users, that can help to additionally offset the cost increase.

If you do decide to move to cloud, you get the best of Atlassian – a platform that grows with you integrates with all your tools and gets smarter and faster every day. Enhanced security, improved reliability, accelerated innovation, easier to manage, lower cost of ownership, to name a few, with additional details noting:

You can learn more about the benefits of moving to the cloud here.

Our migration-center provides end-to-end support throughout your move to Data Center, leveraging our proven best practices and resources, including:

Step-by-step deployment guides show you how to plan and successfully migrate to either non-clustered or clustered Data Center.

Resources and migration tools that can make migrating to Data Center easier.

Support to guide you through every step of your journey to Data Center and ensure you have the information you need to be successful.

Solution Partners for complex setups and support to help you plan for, move to, and grow with Atlassian’s Data Center products. If you still have open questions after reviewing the documentation, our team will be happy to clarify them for you – get in touch .

Regards,
Earl

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Thank you Earl. I appreciate the factual parts of your post and the information and helpful links you provided. For future posts, you may want to refrain from the opinions ("...move to cloud, you get the best of Atlassian...") as that's how you completely lose the interest of someone who may be on the fence about this.

If your cloud offerings were truly your "best" we would have been on it already.

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If cloud would be "the best", why isn't it GDPR compliant and allows to restrict e.g. the directory to be browsed for project members, only? It is currently all-or-nothing.

I really wish Atlassian takes GDPR serious and implements flexible GDPR settings into their products as the Space Privacy App currently allows in CF.

Unresolved privacy issue tickets since more than 15 years says a lot to me...

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Unresolved privacy issue tickets since more than 15 years says a lot to me...

In the "Champions" thread, which is meant for discussing which barriers are keeping customers from going into the cloud, there are a lot of "coming soons" and talks about the roadmap when compliance issues are brought up. Some of these have dates set a couple years away and we all know that issues can compound and cause even further delays.

I've only been an Atlassian customer for about 3 years now but a lot of the tickets I've looked into and have been following really haven't made much movement. Granted, it's with the server offerings (and not compliance-related) but I take lessons learned from the past when applying something in the future.

Like • Dalectric likes this

really haven't made much movement

Some are more than 15 years old, like such super-complicated topics as being able to rename a group in Jira.

This would be hilarious in a fairy tale, but not so much in real life.

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Sorry, I guess I accidentally deleted my last post when trying to edit it (?)

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@Tom Shaffer - to answer your question: Yes, for server you bought a lifetime license. So you can choose to run your Confluence and JSD server as long as you want to.

This also includes all the marketplace apps you may have.

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Thank you, Matthias. That will help us (and I'm sure others) know all of the options they have, even if it may not be the most ideal one.

Like • Matthias Gaiser _K15t_ likes this

we migrated our confluence server version to docker, so we can keep the last version als long as we want - up to now we have a open link to the internet, so we will close this after the last security update. This will save as time to move to a new version. Hopefully there is a market for somebody offering migration tools from confluence to something else in the next years. For security reasons we will never move to the cloud with our vital data. In fact, from europe we are simply not allowed to move to servers not in europe.

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Hi.

That is the absolutely worst what you could have done to me any my company. We have built everything on Atlassians products (Confluence, Jira, Bitbucket, Bamboo) and we have trusted that you would not stab your customers in the back.

We can't migrated to the cloud and we will never be able to do so. Also as company of 100 ppl we wont be able to pay DC. You left us without any option.

No idea what to do.

Regards

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Yep, it's utter nonsense. Can't wait for their stock to tank.

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switch to alternate software. Atlassian was so "nice" to give you some time to switch for good.

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So, you are saying there is only a moderate price increase, but as I see it our 10-user Confluence license is increasing from 10$/yr to 1300$/yr? That's a 13000% increase?

Also, do you cloud products already support trivial things like 'hosting on your own domain'?

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In 2018, we purchased numerous products (academic discount and 36 month term) that worked out to under 20K a year. The same products now? 50K.

We've built out workflows that (I hear) won't translate into the cloud.

That we are compelled to move the the cloud is disappointing but not at all surprising. The price increases? Products we looked at 3-4 years ago are now worth another look -- esp. since the transition to the cloud is likely to be so disruptive for us we might easily rebuild in another product.

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Which products you are looking into now?

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With the news being less than a week old we are looking at short and long term options and trying to understand what Atlassian options are short term in particular. Maybe five years ago we looked at TeamDynamix -- with all of the changes with Atlassian, it is probably worth looking again.

Like • Taylor Huston likes this

This is so abstractly stupid idea, that I do not have any words to express that.

Are you lost your connection with reality? With one decision? Who is so smart to kill the whole segment on the market? You think, that I am going to mitigate risks you have created on the ground? No way. I am going to recommend to leave a platform if necessary, because after one stupid idea I can expect next one - in that case Atlassian is not a reliable partner - even projects I have under progress are now at risk.

You went strictly against values you have been signalizing.

After 12 years something like that... what a dissapointment.

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While I understand the move to cloud based services ($$$) and less support issues.

For a “minor” portion of your customers cloud services are simply not an option. It can be IP / lack of certification / regulations 21 CFR Part 11 or GDPR / company policy. Our Notified Body simply will not except external sources which we have no control over. Which puts our certification at risk.

Just the continuous upgrade path of cloud is a dealbreaker for the situation I am in. There is no way to check for data integrity of the contents. Filed a ticket for that but nobody was interested.

Datacenter at its current form is also a no-go for anyone under 500 users. Just the pricing will not pass management review. Leaving mid size business in the cold.

Any users that can work in the cloud probably already moved to it already. So either you are considering your remaining customers as dead wood that needs to be pruned for profits or someone is sleeping at the wheel.

At least I will have some time to look at alternatives. Sad to have to do this after using your products for over 8 years.

edit:For a more in-depth explanation : here

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It is not a minor portion it is a huge chunk.

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It is not a minor portion it is a huge chunk.

Someone posted the Atlassian Q4 2020 Shareholders Letter in the "Champions" thread and it said on-premises customers account for 75% of the customer base (for Jira Software and Confluence).

I really thought we were the actual minority here but now this really answers the real intentions of this whole debacle.

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exactly, their cloud products suck, now they use brute force.

We did a lot of effort to bring business processes finally to own hosted JIRA instance, as this is required in our case by regulator.

We will immediately start searching for alternatives and if we need to split up again into 10 different tools, but still cheaper, we will go for it.

Atlassian, you try to make yourself Apple, but you forget there are other great tools out in the world and as fast you think you can change the behaviour of your customers to be pushed into cloud or high costs for less risk (and trust me, big companies e.g. financial sector are not allowed to. Did you also ever heard about GDPR in EU) you will there will be other tools rising up and taking this customers. Maybe this is your plan, but we are depending on your support, but this is no support, this is a joke.

After five minutes googling I can find a lot good, open source or cheap alternatives.

Making yourself to premium brand was not necessary, many people trust in your expertise and tools.

Cloud does not solve everything! You will see!

bye!

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This might be a good idea to set up a page how to migrate to open source solutions.
I certainly would be interested.

Edit: To be clear, this is not how I would like to see this go, but you are not giving any alternatives.

Edit: Seems someone already did this: https://bye-bye-server.com/

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Please see the replies I made to my own comment (a few comments above this) I've just moved about 60 repositories to my own Gitlab installation. It was quite straightforward. Just be methodical

Derek

Like • Stephen Gentle likes this

Thanks for documenting your work @derekk19 . Unfortunately moving repos is the least of my worries. I think I'm going to have to write a custom solution to export a decade worth of Jira issues + comments + attachments + custom integrations with addons.

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