What just happened to Confluence Cloud?

[Abhay Patil]

@Liron - will like to participate in "user research" that you mention above.  (I have followed you on twitter @abhaymitaan.)

[Liron]

done :)

[Helen Griffith]

Hi @Liron Have tried to DM you on Twitter but you need to follow me there...

[Liron]

Will do Helen ! Wondering if there's a way here that you can give me your email address? Perhaps direct message me on Twitter? 

[Helen Griffith]

Hi@Liron,

I'd be very interested in taking part in future research. Like many others I'm sure, tool choice is out of my hands and I have been told that I must use Confluence regardless of whether it's the right tool for us. It's quite apparent that it's not—based on the fact that I continually find that I simply can't do what I need to even before this current change—but it was just about usable with as much customization as I can possibly do. Now it's not...

So to be part of something that might shape the future of the product would be a really positive step.

Please add me to whatever user experience initiative you have.

Thanks!

Helen

[Liron]

Thanks for the recognition Jim.

Regarding the specific page tree issue (it not being available in the overview page), I beg to differ that "Atlassian will not fix this until there is a demonstrable loss of revenue". Although revenue is obviously what drives most companies, it is not the only driver here I assure you. 

One must remember that people use Confluence for a variety of use cases, many of which do not include needing the page tree when looking at the overview page (especially considering the page tree exists on ALL other page views, and in its own tab 'Pages', and is available as a macro configurable to go on any page, including overview if you wish).

Also , we are indeed implementing some improvements in the coming 2 weeks that will ease this pain, I assure you this. This is why we have delayed the dates around making the new experience the default one. As I mentioned in previous posts, I will confirm what we are shipping very soon.

In the near future after that, there are initiatives in place to try and cater for even more use cases of Confluence. This, like always, will involve user research and interviews, and I urge anyone on this thread to let us know if you want to participate in such research in the future. This is how we always build new things (including this new experience) and we would love to hear about the exact context of your sites/spaces in order to learn how Confluence can best serve your specific use case.

So, bottom line is, Atlassian is not turning its back on its users, on the contrary, we have made this design shift based on research and user studies (as we always do) - however we do realise this particular issue is painful for some customers - which is why we will continue to improve on this in the coming future. We are not dropping it, the page tree is still core to Confluence and we need to balance this together with a clean productive user interface - which we will.

Thanks again for the recognition of our work - it means a lot especially in threads such as these.

All the best

Liron

[Jim Brent]

Till,

I read your deeply thoughtful comments and was surprised how your experiences are similar to mine... However, after 30 years, I am still a developer.

I can remember when we were just starting computerization of tasks in the banking industry some 29 years ago and the users were Luddites and (correctly) feared the automation of their tasks... However at that time the usability research with the workers was extensive  ~ ad nausium. It took six months of painstaking research before we were allowed to start coding. And the users were not happy because the change from paper to electronic processing was so drastic, it was a complete paradigm shift of epic proporations. The change took at least 10 - 15 years to become the new normal (with constant modification and refinement)... THAT was a business driven decision.

I think this shift in the UI is similar... Atlassian is moving towards the  modern lowest cost user that will do everything on their Phone or PED at the lowest cost... The users will have to just trudge along because evey other tool out there is doing similar things... I would imagine that re-working the UI to include the tree view is a cost the company is unwilling to make because it might negatively affect someone's annual bonus or their political capital within the hierarchy of their organization. They will report to the "committee or team" that "some troublesome users made a fuss but they will adapt and profits will increase long term..."

I think Atlassian forgets that many of us hard core developers work on Intranets because the Internet/Cloud is not permiteed at work for security reasons. Therefore, we won't ever be able to use the advantages of mobil device development. Trust me - the Cloud and the web ain't secure and won't be for another 20 - 40 years... (We have two seperate enterprise-scale implentations two seperate Atalaissen tool suites.)

I doubt tthat Atlassian will have the courage to admit they messed this up - Netflix did when they messed up their core business with the online-only option decision... They reverted finally and regained most of the lost 20% of their customers. (That CEO should have been fired.) 

Atlassian will not fix this until there is demonstratable loss of revenue. Which given the fact the customer base is stuck with HUGE  investments in the content probably won't happen.

Confluence is going to become the "SharePoint like tool"  that users dislike and are stuck with...) as we are in our organization...

For me I am moving to a new organization in two weeks and can tell you I am not going to use Atlassian Tools for the new project (I am the team lead)...

And yes we will be assimilated... LOL

Don't forget Liron has a tough job to do and most likely is not making these decisions so I am impressed with her professionalism in the face of irate customers. 

Best wishes to all.. 

[Russell Rhodes]

Hi Liron, 

I can log out, but what I'm left with is unfortunately unstable and at times unusable  Screenshots below taken from the same browser on different days.  I'm not only unable to view pages correctly, but also sometimes unable to save pages when editing due to missing links.  

[Helen Griffith]

So mid-September... That gives us two/three weeks... when I say 'us' I mean me—a part-time worker, the only person responsible for 600+ pages worth of customer-facing documentation. Now, that's not Atlassian's fault at all but figuring out a way to make things as usable as possible, on top of a more than full-time job... Not gonna happen.

The last time Atlassian made big changes to the sidebar (adding in the weird child page/page tree option instead of a simple list of all the pages in the space) it took ages to work out a way around it (customized page include). And now that fix has broken... I'm running out of options!

[Bruce Reeler]

+1 ! 

The notification area has also been implemented badly so that it requires its own additional scrollbar.

So when editing, one needs to either scroll the new scroll bar, or scroll down further than the bottom of the text area to see the "Publish" button.

[Brendan Andrews]

And can we please lose the permanent notification taking up space at the top of the screen when you've opted out? Like the rest of the change it's the opposite of helpful.

Helpful would be to have permanently displayed the opt out option.. :)

I've blocked it with adblock for now.

[Liron]

Hey Till,

I'm really sorry that you were offended by my comment. It was certainly never my intent to come across as arrogant and condescending.

I think the best way to avoid any misunderstandings would be for us to continue this discussion via a video call. Would you be happy to do this?

Thanks!

Liron

[Bruce Reeler]

Why, when it's patently obvious that many people need the tree view to operate their sites, doesn't Atlassian make it a configurable option?

How much more obvious does it need to be?

Then, if you want to display your screens on a narrow mobile phone screen, you can choose to turn the tree off.

But all we hear is: "..we will be bringing customers back into the new experience by default (with no option to opt out) in mid September".

Sounds like: "resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated".

Sound familiar?

[Liron]

Hi Till,

We do understand this request.

Thanks for explaining it again, trust us that we are considering ALL angles and seeking to find the best solution for our customers.

Thanks

Liron

[Liron]

Hey Bruno,

Anonymous users cannot opt out. We could opt out your whole instance but then how will you go back and forth in order to adjust to the new experience?

Let me know how you want to proceed. Either way everyone will be opted back in mid September.

Thanks!

Liron

[Liron]

Hey, 

There is an opt out option in the UI both from your profile menu (bottom left, where you see your picture), or from the blue sidebar under 'New Experience' there's an opt out button.

You can opt out between now and mid September by which date we will be switching everyone back onto the new experience.

Please use this time to adjust and also let us know of anything you find in the new experience that is holding you back.

The page tree, is still there, just not on overview pages. Please let me know if you can't find it?

Thanks

Liron

[Liron]

Please note, the dates have shifted - 

We are indeed aware of this pain some customers are experiencing with the page tree not being there on Overview pages.

Because we are listening, we have decided to extend the period customers can opt in and out of the new experience and we will only be bringing customers back into the new experience by default (with no option to opt out) in mid September. 

I hope this helps adjust, meanwhile we are taking the time to respond and act on this feedback , and will improve the experience between now and then based on this.

Thanks

L

[Bruno Miretti]

Hi Liron,

please explain me how anonymous users can "opt out". This new shiny UI has broken many things in our online documentation. I need an option as an admin to "opt out" either the whole instance or some spaces. This will let us time to find workarounds to the features you've removed in this new concept of "regression software".

Thanks

[Ben Hamilton]

+1 for the Sidebar. I prefer it expanded, but happy if it's an option to be collapsed or expanded. And customisable.

[Ben Hamilton]

+1 for Robert Quinns comment.

[Liron]

Hi Bruce and thanks for your post and the links. We are indeed aware of this pain some customers are experiencing with the page tree not being there on Overview pages.

Because we are listening, we have decided to extend the period customers can opt in and out of the new experience and we will only be bringing customers back into the new experience by default (with no option to opt out) in mid September. 

Taking this time means two things:

1) More time for you to adjust and learn the new experience, train your team, etc.

2) More time for us to address issues exactly like the one you mentioned. We are working through this and trying to find the right balance of solutions with you - our customers - at top of mind. 

I apologize if the feeling has been that you have been ignored. The team (me included) are working through improving the experience every single day and are reading through everything including the above tickets you mentioned. Your voices are not unheard, even if not every single request is fullfilled. We are taking this time to respond and ACT on your feedback, I will soon give an update about what exactly it is we are improving/bringing back etc.

Thanks

Liron

[Liron]

Hey Russell, do you mean you can't opt out of the new uI ?

[Bruce Reeler]

Well it seems someone from Atlassian does read this page.

I base my comment on the lack of response to the bug report mentioned several times on this page, and its associated bugs, with a total of :
- 90 upvotes
- 59 comments from other users

but which had not (and still have not) even had assignees allocated by Atlassian:

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFCLOUD-56841

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFCLOUD-50405

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFCLOUD-51524

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFCLOUD-51627

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONFCLOUD-54618

This much negative feedback should be seen as quite a significant response in anyone's books. Hence the strong feeling expressed by users that they are just being ignored.

Reading through "thousands of good and bad comments every single day" is all very well, but it's doing something about it that gets kudos.

[Russell Rhodes]

Opt out creates a mess

Also not a fan of new UI, in-particular losing the page navigation bar.

I selected the link to Log out and the page now doesn't render properly at all (looks like broken CSS) so I can't navigate or edit pages.

Reluctantly my only option is to opt back in but Opt In button links to an empty anchor (#).

Does anyone know a URL or similar I can use to force opt in so I can keep using Confluence?

[Martin Sauter]

As you may have noticed, the date for switching all users to the new UI has been postponed. The announcement in the top bar of my Confluence Cloud instance now reads as follows:

«We're giving you more time to prep for the new Confluence experience while we act on your feedback. We'll be turning it back on between Sept 14–23. Opt back in or learn more.»

This is good news for everybody following this discussion. By this Atlassian acknowledges that a significant part of their users/clients are not satisfied with the new Confluence experience. And it leaves a bit more time to discuss issues and hopefully fix them.

On the other hand, Atlassian still plans to switch all users to the new UI, even if they have opted out. I think this is one of the main reasons why the discussion here and elsewhere on Atlassian Community became quite heated.

The best thing Atlassian can do now is to accept that there are users who find the new UI useful and users who don't. Instead of vasting a lot of energy for argueing with frustrated users Atlassian should simply let them choose between the old UI and the new UI as long as they wish. There can be a Confluence Classic Theme and a Confluence Modern Theme side by side – no big deal for Atlassian, but a massive relieve for people who use Confluence differently than the Atlassian UI team assumes.

So I am asking Atlassian: Don't enforce the new UI on us – convince us that it's the better alternative! Leave us the choice between the old and the new theme, contuinue to improve the new theme – and time (and statistics) will show.

By the way: I would like to thank @Liron for participating in this discussion. While we don't agree in many points regarding the new UI I really appreciate that she is taking her time to explain the reasoning behind it and to forward our complaints to the developers.