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Existing original time estimates show 0 in backlog until issue is opened

Kent Pilkington_cz3zf2

Disclaimer: This is my first time using Jira, and I'm trying to use it to estimate a website project. I have some familiarity with Agile, though not from any particular dogma.

I've created a couple of epics, one for backend stuff and one for frontend stuff. I'm adding a bunch of tasks to my backlog under each, and I'm trying to make sure that I've estimated time for each one.

If I reload the page, none of the tasks (estimated or not) show anything for the estimated time.

If I mouse over the task, it shows 0m.

If I click on the task and the task has been estimated, the backlog is updated with the estimate.

If I click on the task and the task has not been estimated, nothing changes (which makes sense).

So, in order to see if I have estimated everything, I have to go to each item one by one and inspect it so the backlog updates.

Also (and I can put this in a separate issue if necessary), if there are any estimated sub-tasks, the task estimate remains 0. I haven't found a workaround for this one.

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Nic Brough -Adaptavist-

Welcome to the Atlassian Community!

Do not put sprint estimates on sub-tasks. They are not sprint items, they are fragments of their parent story, so putting sprint estimates on them makes no sense, and Jira won't look at them.

I can't replicate your backlog behaviour - if I create a task with an estimate and go into the backlog, the estimate is shown immediately, I don't have to click on the issue again to get it to appear.

Could you tell us exactly what you are doing to get this behaviour? (Is it, for example, create issue without estimate -> look at backlog -> edit issue, adding an estimate -> refresh backlog page -> go into issue again -> refresh backlog page)

Kent Pilkington_cz3zf2

I'm also unable to replicate the estimate roll-up behavior that I experienced earlier. Odd.

Regarding sub-task estimates, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I haven't yet figured out how to add stories and work them into sprints.

I am able to add tasks, though. Tasks have a field for Original Estimate. Tasks can also have sub-tasks. Each sub-task also has a field for Original Estimate. I need to estimate the time/effort that it might take to complete the task. I do that by breaking down the task into the sub-tasks, estimating the effort, and then rolling them up. Granted, the estimate will be on the low side because we almost never account for everything, but that's life.

So, how do I get sub-task estimates to roll up to task estimates? Getting the task into a story/sprint is also a good question, but not my immediate challenge.

Nic Brough -Adaptavist-

Sub-task time estimates do roll up into issues, when you view an issue the estimate section has a tick-box to toggle "include subtasks" in the time panel, and the issue navigator lets you display a set of Σ fields that add up all the values in a sub-task on to the issue of which they are a part (Σoriginal estimate, for example)

But you can not use these as a sprint estimate - sub-tasks are not sprint items; Jira takes the simplest approach and ignores sub-task estimates for sprints.

Kent Pilkington_cz3zf2

I think there's something I'm totally missing here.

Nobody says, "I have capacity for some of that task in this sprint, but I'm not going to add that sub-task because i can't add the whole task". That wouldn't make sense.

And if the sub-task estimates are ignored, how would I even know whether the task as a whole can fit in a sprint unless I add the sub-tasks manually and key in the information manually at the task level? (I mean, it's a computer. Arithmetic is literally it's "thing".)

But if those ARE true, I suppose that leads back to your recommendation that I not estimate anything smaller than a task. My projects are small, they aren't THAT small. How does Jira recommend dealing with estimates more complex than 2 levels?

If I'm stretching it beyond what it was designed for, I can accept that and look for another solution, but what I'm hearing is just so bizarre that I'm having trouble believing that we're on the same page, and if it CAN work, I don't want to just pass on it because of a miscommunication.

Nic Brough -Adaptavist-

Again, the sub-tasks are not sprint items.

In scrum, you commit to delivering a set of items, not bits of them. You estimate the items, not parts of them. And you deliver the items, not bits of them.

All sprint items should have estimates that fit within the sprint. If you can not estimate an item low enough to fit, then you split it into many items.

Sub-tasks are purely fragments of items.

Now, there's nothing wrong with estimating sub-tasks, but because their estimates are not relevant to the sprint, Jira simply ignores them. If you want to use estimates on sub-tasks, you will need to come up with an automation that works out their effect on the story's sprint estimates.

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