The left-hand page tree nav bar just disappeared from my space, and I can't find any way to navigate other than searching. There doesn't seem to be a page tree anywhere in the Space Tools.
I can't find the admin tools to log a support issue, either.
Why, when it's patently obvious that many people need the tree view to operate their sites, doesn't Atlassian make it a configurable option?
How much more obvious does it need to be?
Then, if you want to display your screens on a narrow mobile phone screen, you can choose to turn the tree off.
But all we hear is: "..we will be bringing customers back into the new experience by default (with no option to opt out) in mid September".
Sounds like: "resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated".
Sound familiar?
Let me say it in the fewest possible words:
The Page Tree should always be visible, no matter what type of page is displayed.
(Unless a user turns that default off by choice.)
Also, I find the following statement almost unbelievably arrogant and condescending:
"Please use this time to adjust and also let us know of anything you find in the new experience that is holding you back."
Am I the only one?
Hey Till,
I'm really sorry that you were offended by my comment. It was certainly never my intent to come across as arrogant and condescending.
I think the best way to avoid any misunderstandings would be for us to continue this discussion via a video call. Would you be happy to do this?
Thanks!
Liron
And can we please lose the permanent notification taking up space at the top of the screen when you've opted out? Like the rest of the change it's the opposite of helpful.
Helpful would be to have permanently displayed the opt out option..
I've blocked it with adblock for now.
+1 !
The notification area has also been implemented badly so that it requires its own additional scrollbar.
So when editing, one needs to either scroll the new scroll bar, or scroll down further than the bottom of the text area to see the "Publish" button.
No thanks. I'm tired of this whole discussion and am bowing out.
You guys will do as you please anyway. Sign of the times.
I was a software developer for almost 30 years before I became a techwriter, and in those days long gone, we kind of paid attention to what people actually wanted--and to fixing bugs first!--before diving into changes imagined by people who think they know better than their user-base what's good for the latter, or what said users would actually like to see. All in the name of 'new experiences'. Which, frankly, is nonsense, but definitely the current Zeitgeist; with software producers of all kinds assuming that their clients consist mostly of 'experience' neophiliacs.
They don't. And your designers definitely do not know 'better' what clients want than said clients. So maybe next time you guys should do some serious market and real 'user' surveys before conjuring up more new 'experiences'.
To end on a positive note: I do prefer the new font! Much.
So mid-September... That gives us two/three weeks... when I say 'us' I mean me—a part-time worker, the only person responsible for 600+ pages worth of customer-facing documentation. Now, that's not Atlassian's fault at all but figuring out a way to make things as usable as possible, on top of a more than full-time job... Not gonna happen.
The last time Atlassian made big changes to the sidebar (adding in the weird child page/page tree option instead of a simple list of all the pages in the space) it took ages to work out a way around it (customized page include). And now that fix has broken... I'm running out of options!
Hi Liron,
I can log out, but what I'm left with is unfortunately unstable and at times unusable Screenshots below taken from the same browser on different days. I'm not only unable to view pages correctly, but also sometimes unable to save pages when editing due to missing links.
(I like the new font too. But everything else makes me really sad.)
Till,
I read your deeply thoughtful comments and was surprised how your experiences are similar to mine... However, after 30 years, I am still a developer.
I can remember when we were just starting computerization of tasks in the banking industry some 29 years ago and the users were Luddites and (correctly) feared the automation of their tasks... However at that time the usability research with the workers was extensive ~ ad nausium. It took six months of painstaking research before we were allowed to start coding. And the users were not happy because the change from paper to electronic processing was so drastic, it was a complete paradigm shift of epic proporations. The change took at least 10 - 15 years to become the new normal (with constant modification and refinement)... THAT was a business driven decision.
I think this shift in the UI is similar... Atlassian is moving towards the modern lowest cost user that will do everything on their Phone or PED at the lowest cost... The users will have to just trudge along because evey other tool out there is doing similar things... I would imagine that re-working the UI to include the tree view is a cost the company is unwilling to make because it might negatively affect someone's annual bonus or their political capital within the hierarchy of their organization. They will report to the "committee or team" that "some troublesome users made a fuss but they will adapt and profits will increase long term..."
I think Atlassian forgets that many of us hard core developers work on Intranets because the Internet/Cloud is not permiteed at work for security reasons. Therefore, we won't ever be able to use the advantages of mobil device development. Trust me - the Cloud and the web ain't secure and won't be for another 20 - 40 years... (We have two seperate enterprise-scale implentations two seperate Atalaissen tool suites.)
I doubt tthat Atlassian will have the courage to admit they messed this up - Netflix did when they messed up their core business with the online-only option decision... They reverted finally and regained most of the lost 20% of their customers. (That CEO should have been fired.)
Atlassian will not fix this until there is demonstratable loss of revenue. Which given the fact the customer base is stuck with HUGE investments in the content probably won't happen.
Confluence is going to become the "SharePoint like tool" that users dislike and are stuck with...) as we are in our organization...
For me I am moving to a new organization in two weeks and can tell you I am not going to use Atlassian Tools for the new project (I am the team lead)...
And yes we will be assimilated... LOL
Don't forget Liron has a tough job to do and most likely is not making these decisions so I am impressed with her professionalism in the face of irate customers.
Best wishes to all..
Thanks for the recognition Jim.
Regarding the specific page tree issue (it not being available in the overview page), I beg to differ that "Atlassian will not fix this until there is a demonstrable loss of revenue". Although revenue is obviously what drives most companies, it is not the only driver here I assure you.
One must remember that people use Confluence for a variety of use cases, many of which do not include needing the page tree when looking at the overview page (especially considering the page tree exists on ALL other page views, and in its own tab 'Pages', and is available as a macro configurable to go on any page, including overview if you wish).
Also , we are indeed implementing some improvements in the coming 2 weeks that will ease this pain, I assure you this. This is why we have delayed the dates around making the new experience the default one. As I mentioned in previous posts, I will confirm what we are shipping very soon.
In the near future after that, there are initiatives in place to try and cater for even more use cases of Confluence. This, like always, will involve user research and interviews, and I urge anyone on this thread to let us know if you want to participate in such research in the future. This is how we always build new things (including this new experience) and we would love to hear about the exact context of your sites/spaces in order to learn how Confluence can best serve your specific use case.
So, bottom line is, Atlassian is not turning its back on its users, on the contrary, we have made this design shift based on research and user studies (as we always do) - however we do realise this particular issue is painful for some customers - which is why we will continue to improve on this in the coming future. We are not dropping it, the page tree is still core to Confluence and we need to balance this together with a clean productive user interface - which we will.
Thanks again for the recognition of our work - it means a lot especially in threads such as these.
All the best
Can you please raise a support ticket? This obviously is a bug on your instance.
Hi@Liron,
I'd be very interested in taking part in future research. Like many others I'm sure, tool choice is out of my hands and I have been told that I must use Confluence regardless of whether it's the right tool for us. It's quite apparent that it's not—based on the fact that I continually find that I simply can't do what I need to even before this current change—but it was just about usable with as much customization as I can possibly do. Now it's not...
So to be part of something that might shape the future of the product would be a really positive step.
Please add me to whatever user experience initiative you have.
Helen
Will do Helen ! Wondering if there's a way here that you can give me your email address? Perhaps direct message me on Twitter?
Hi @Liron Have tried to DM you on Twitter but you need to follow me there...
done
@Liron - will like to participate in "user research" that you mention above. (I have followed you on twitter @abhaymitaan.)
I can facilitate as well, since we don't yet have direct messaging -- if anyone would like me to share their email address with @Liron directly, I can do so.
That would be great. Thanks.
Done, @Abhay Patil
@Monique vdB, can you please share my email for user research too? Thanks!
Move to server
@Susan Ostreicher done!
@Liron I have created a support ticket for an issue for "too much of white space" in a simple page. I have included screenshots of the same page in old and new UI to highlight how it looks inelegant and sparse in the new UI. Please check https://getsupport.atlassian.com/servicedesk/customer/portal/23/JST-320593
Just replied to you there!
This is great! I will make sure your names are added to our list of users to contact for our next round of interviews!
Sounds like I might be wrong... Nothing could make me happier.
;-)
Best wishes.
Jim
Jim,
Thanks for your comments. Inclined to agree with most of what you wrote.
And, yes, Liron is doing a good job. Not easy being on the customer-comms coalface. (Been there, too.)
@LironI would love the read your reply, but when I follow the link posted above, all I get is a message saying «You do not have permission to view this request.» What's the reason for this?
Perhaps because support tickets arent public?
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