Is JIRA and Agile being replaced by JIRA Software?

[Dawn Fama]

So next year when I renew my license do I just sign up for JIRA software and will everything from JIRA core and agile migrate over?

[Jonas Andersson]

I am also a bit curious about what license we will be using. Being a software developing company, who also use JIRA for HR-projects, compliance and day to day tracking of issues and task for none-technical users, what license will fit us or will we be forced into splitting JIRA into 3 different deployments?

[Mirek]

I recommend keeping JIRA Software (JIRA + JIRA Agile) for long as you can .. and customize it with plugins to fit for HR-projects and all non-technical users..

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

I'd recommend the opposite - upgrade and licence the Software application for the tech users and Core for the non-technical ones. The only problem with that is that your non-tech users may be using Kanban boards for reporting. If they are, they'll lose them, as Kanban is part of Software.

[Dawn Fama]

Hmmm, this is disappointing to hear about Kanban board loss. We currently have JEMH, JIRA, Agile, Crowd (for user management) and JIRA Portfolio

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

Yes, it's quite a wrench - I've got very used to going to sites who have JIRA + Agile and showing non-techies what they can do with a Kanban board, because they are simply, well, useful. Even when you're not in the slightest bit "Agile", or doing Kanban, or even using JIRA to track issues, a Kanban board is useful. See this slightly encouraging conversation: https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/31655385/why-are-kanban-boards-not-part-of-jira-core-kanban-boards-are-highly-useful-for-all-types-of-projects-not-just-software...- And see, watch and vote for https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRA-45690

[Dawn Fama]

I have just sent management word on the new JIRA Software. He has some topics of interest he brought to the discussion and before we make the decision to upgrade, I was wondering if I could get some insight. Also, here is a list of licensed components we have already purchased (100 seat for each add-on) JIRA, Agile, JEMH, Crowd, and JIRA Portfolio Management comments and questions below: • They still are using the same licensing tiers. Meaning that when you need more than 100 licenses, you need to pay the 250 license cost. There are no options in between (like 150 or 200 licenses) • For the Agile plug-in, they are moving to a model where you don’t have to pay for Agile licenses for all users. The way it will work is that you purchase JIRA licenses for all your users. So if we need 150 user licenses, we would need to purchase them at the 250 license cost. However, if we only have our team using the Agile plug-in (say 75 licenses) then we can buy that at the 100 license level. That will save some money. • Another change is in the annual cost of JIRA. They mention some things changing to one-time costs instead of annual costs, but I’m not sure if that is just JIRA or the plug-ins too. So, Dawn and I still need to find out the following to get you a good answer for planning: 1. Does the Agile plug-in model apply to all our plug-ins? Doesn’t seem so, but might as well ask. 2. Given that we already have licenses, do we pay the full one time cost? If we move up to a higher tier, do we pay the full one time cost? 3. Which products do the one-time costs apply to?

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

No. It's not the "Agile add-on" any more. It's Jira Software as an *application*. Applications can be licenced separately to JIRA Core, so you could have 100 JS software users and 250 JC users. This only applies to Applications, not add-ons. Service Desk and Software are the only applications so far. I'd expect Portfolio to become one at some point. JEMH probably won't because it has a set of global operations that you can't really limit to just one set of users. Crowd is a totally separate system. I can't comment on the "one time costs" - I have no idea where you've got that from.

[Mirek]

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist], 

Currently your payment for 100 tier: 

JIRA 100 - $4000
JIRA (Agile) 100 - $2000

Sum: $6000

You can then buy JIRA Software and that is right - price is the same

JIRA Software - $6000

Let's then do a detailed analysis... 

45 developers + 45 non-technical users = 90 Users

JIRA Software 50 - $3,300
JIRA Core 50 - $2,200

Sum: $5,500 (+$500)

51 developers + 39 non-technical users = 90 users

JIRA Software 100 - $6,000
JIRA Core 50 - $2,200

Sum: $8,200 (-$2,200)

39 developers + 51 non-technical users = 90 users

JIRA Software 50 - $3,300
JIRA Core 100 - $4,000

Sum: $7,300 (-$1,300)

75 developers + 20 non-technical users = 90 users

JIRA Software 100 - $6,000
JIRA Core 25 - $1,200

Sum: $7,200 (-$1,200)

20 developers + 75 non-technical users = 90 users

JIRA Software 25 - $1,800
JIRA Core 100 - $4,000

Sum: $5,800 (+$200)

How much you can earn? How much you can lose? The probability that you have more developers than non-technical user is much higher than opposite. This mean that you can in most cases pay more than now only for JIRA Software.

We can continue... Let's assume that 56 people joined and you need to buy a bigger license. What then? 

JIRA + JIRA(Agile)

JIRA 250 - $8,000
JIRA Agile 250 - $4,000

Sum: $12,000 

JIRA Software 250 - $12,000

101 developers + 45 non-technical users = 146 users

JIRA Software 250 - $12,000
JIRA Core 50 - $2,200

Sum: $14,200 (-$2,200)

45 developers + 101 non-technical users = 146 users

JIRA Software 50 - $3,300
JIRA Core 250 - $8,000

Sum: $11,300 (+$700)

20 developers + 126 non-technical users = 146 users

JIRA Software 25 - $1,800
JIRA Core 250 - $8,000

Sum: $9,800 (+$2,200)

126 developers + 20 non-technical users = 146 users

JIRA Software 250 - $12,000
JIRA Core 25 - $1,200

Sum: $13,200 (-$1,200)

How about very slight change .. add 6 more users? ... 

107 developers + 45 non-technical users = 152 users

JIRA Software 250 - $12,000
JIRA Core 50 - $2,200

Sum: $14,200 (-$2,200)

51 developers + 101 non-technical users = 152 users

JIRA Software 100 - $6,000
JIRA Core 250 - $8,000

Sum: $14,000 (-$2,000)

26 developers + 126 non-technical users = 152 users

JIRA Software 50 - $3,300
JIRA Core 250 - $8,000

Sum: $11,300 (+$700)

126 developers + 26 non-technical users = 152 users

JIRA Software 250 - $12,000
JIRA Core 50 - $2,200

Sum: $14,200 (-$2,200)

What you think now? Still want to break it even that JIRA Software is including JIRA Core? 

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

Nope. You're now arguing against tiering, which has been in place for many years. You're still not getting the point that the licences for 7 *can* work out cheaper and will if you split it up. The more expensive stuff you are using as an example here happens because of tiers, not because of the change to version 7 licencing.

[Mirek]

Tiers have nothing to do here .. Those did not change.. I am showing you in this example that in most cases you will pay more for combination JIRA Core + JIRA Software instead of just having JIRA Software (that is having Core features included!).. Look at the numbers and scenarios.. Everything now depend on how many technical and non-technical users you will have .. if you have 45 and 45 then you pay $500 less comparing to JIRA Software .. if you have 126 developers and 26 business then you pay $2,200 more! It is simple math.. That is why I recommend staying with JIRA Software for long as people can.. You get Agile/Kanban and have business features .. What is wrong with that?

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

I don't understand why you can't see that your numbers prove that it's tiers causing the problems you're describing.

[Mirek]

Now I do not understand why you are saying about tiers since those exist and define current prices .. We do not pay for single user (yet!) so what kind of calculation you think I should do in order to always see the benefit of breaking that you see? .. If the potential customer ask you.. "What I should buy when I have currently 41 000 developers and 12 000 business users? Only JIRA Software or maybe also JIRA Core?" .. What you will reply to him knowing that he will pay $24,000 more for something that could have only buying JIRA Software? How do you convince him to spend so much money? He can buy Confluence 10000+ for that ...

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

Look. This is really simple, and you're over-complicating it and shifting the goalposts. I have X users on JIRA 6 + Agile Scenario 1: Most of X use Agile. Upgrade to Software with X users = same cost Scenario 2: Some of X use Agile, some do not. I can *not* split X into two groups that would be cheaper Upgrade to Software with X users = same cost Scenario 3: Some of X use Agile, some do not. I can split them into two groups in lower tiers Upgrade to Software with Y users for Core and Z users of software = cheaper The problem is not the upgrade, it's the tiers you are choosing.

[michael_ngangom]

JIRA Software = JIRA Core (Bussiness) + JIRA Agile.

[Mirek]

Thank you Micheal for clarifying that.

[Mirek]

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist],

In reply to my recommendation to stay with JIRA Software as long as we can you mentioned in the comment: "I'd recommend the opposite - upgrade and license the Software application for the tech users and Core for the non-technical ones"

I am asking you then.. If you have JIRA Software that ALLOWS you tho have access to ALL Agile features and ALL Business features (that are in JIRA Core) .. why you want to upgrade and reduce number of features for all business users? Why they cannot use Agile if they still can (as JIRA Software users).. What is wrong with that thing, that non-technical users see a new tab called Agile or something specific for software teams? As soon as they have access to business projects what is bad in this?

If you can have more for LESS price then why you want to change it? I say LESS price because in most cases when you break down like you propose you will pay more (if not now then on the first tier upgrade).

I added a one, simple example already in my question: https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/30955568/what-you-think-about-jira-7-software-core-and-service-desk-in-general

Everything is on below pages:

https://confluence.atlassian.com/migration/jira-7/server_jira+agile_license-upgrade

https://www.atlassian.com/licensing/jira-software.html

https://www.atlassian.com/licensing/jira-core

Just grab a calculator and verify by yourself.

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

I did. In most cases for split usage (some with Agile and some without), it's cheaper. It's even better when you've got other add-ons as well.

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

Oh, and if you read what Dave Meyer said on your question: JIRA Core costs exactly the same as the price of JIRA. The cost to renew with a JIRA Software license is the same as the price of JIRA and JIRA Agile added together. Finally, we have reduced the price of JIRA Service Desk, so many customers will see a price decrease.

[Dawn Fama]

Thank you Nic, I don't see Dave's response in this chain. Perhaps he had commented in a similar post?

[Mirek]

Right.. I noticed that but this the key thing here! .. JIRA Core cost exactly the same price as JIRA.. JIRA Software cost exactly the same price as JIRA + JIRA Software (however I do not agree here - above 500 users price increased!).. so if you combine both you double pay (for the same JIRA basic features) and in addition you disallow specific Core users use Agile features. Do you get this point? You are paying for: JIRA Core = JIRA + Core (Business) and JIRA Software = JIRA + Core (Business) + JIRA Agile If you have JIRA Software you have JIRA Core feature included already! Braking it down is putting you in a situation where you just disallow specific users use Agile and need to pay additional money for that.. why? Nic, I do not know how you are verifying those prices but assuming that you have 50 000 active users and 10 001 of them are non-technical (so you have 39 999 developers) then you can pay US $36,000 for JIRA Software 10 000+ (that include JIRA Core) and you are happy or you can break it down to JIRA Core 10 000+ (cost US $24,000) and JIRA Software 10 000+ AGAIN! (US $36,000) that gives you US $60,000 for what!? You mentioned also about addons, but if you have a lot of then then there is even more confusion that it is now with only those 3 products. I am wrong please correct me, however I do not see any comment from Dave or any one else from Atlassian, that could specifically explain this using few real examples .. so I assume that they are not notified anymore about our comments, right? Everyone is just pointing to migration hub which is just including 20% of information that can be added there to understand everything.. BTW.. The same situation was when Service Desk was introduced and you needed to pay not for an agent but per user.. a lot of time and discussion need to be done in order to finally change this.. I am slowly tired of those awesome changes that do not give much for normal, standard users but more work for others like admins.. and even more work for financial departments and management to understand all of this.

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

Er, I think you've misunderstood. My Jira has 90 users. I am currently paying for 100 JIRA + 100 Agile licences. If all my users are Agile users, then for JIRA Software, I will pay for 100 Software licences (which costs the same as 100 JIRA + 100 Agile) If only 45 of the users are Agile users, then I can drop a tier - I can pay for 50 Software licences (same as 50 JIRA + 50 Agile) for them, and then just 50 Core licences (50 JIRA) for the 45 non-techy ones. Total cost in old money = (100 JIRA + 50 Agile)

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

@Dawn Fama - Sorry, yes, when I mentioned Dave's post, it was a comment on the earlier question that @Mirek referred to on https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/30955568/what-you-think-about-jira-7-software-core-and-service-desk-in-general

[Mirek]

@Nic Brough [Adaptavist], In my opinion my thinking and also yours is correct, however you provided only one example (45 non technical users and 40 developers = 90 users). In order to get full overview you need to examine exactly every scenario. I will spend next 5 min to do this for you. I will add this as a new answer since comments are annoying (like few other features in new Answers) and do not have formatting. Take a look on it and we can continue this discussion if you want.

[Mirek]

@Jonas Andersson,

Currently.. If you have a plugin for JIRA you need to buy licenses for the biggest license that you have.  Example: JIRA Core 25 users, JIRA Software - 50 Users = Gliffy for 50 users ..  

if you add one single person to Software you will go above your license .. you will have to buy an upgrade for Software and Gliffy, so you tier will look like - Core 25 Users, Software 100 Users = Gliffy 100 Users

In your case if you have 500 users you can probably break your JIRA Software into JIRA Core and JIRA Software (Example - Core: 15 Users .. Software: 400 Users) but even that you think that you will pay less, in most cases you actually pay more comparing to old JIRA + JIRA Agile pricing (if not now then in the future when you go above the limit). You will need to examine how many users you exactly have and is this a good change or not.

[Jonas Andersson]

So this means i will be forced to know how many people are using every single add-on on JIRA? In our organization people from HR and software use gliffy, a handful use "The scheduler", 2 people use Risk Management plugin, 40 people use Agile, 10 people use "Email This Issue Plugin" among all the plugins i can think of from the top of my head. How do i know a) which users uses what. b) What category a add-on belongs to (agile is obvious but most others not.)? Do i classify every user to which license they belong? This seems like a logistical nightmare to keep track of, seeing that Jira itself does not (so far) log this? I am more confused now than before :) Is there a page describing the model in more detail?

[Mirek]

Unfortunately migration hub is not saying a word about plugins licensing. The idea is like I explained. If you have JIRA Software 100 Users, JIRA SD - 15 agents, JIRA Core 2000 users you need to buy addons licenses for 2000 users or higher ... if you have JIRA Software 100 users, JIRA SD 15 agents then addons must be 100 users or higher .. etc. And I agree with you.. if addons will start to use also a new model like JIRA right now .. it will be a nightmare to keep track of.

[paulo_miguel]

Hello Dawn,

Since Cloud instances are always on the latest update, changes will happen to improve JIRA .

There is a page where you can find all the changes on this release and get information about the update and the changes on every application.

Here it is the migration hub, with information of JIRA new update as a whole:
https://confluence.atlassian.com/migration/jira-7

Paulo Miguel
Atlassian Support | Cloud

[Dawn Fama]

Thank you Paulo but we are using JIRA server version, not cloud.

[Mirek]

@Dawn Fama, This page is also for server version. You just need to switch tab in order to see it.

[Mirek]

Not sure Dawn when you will renew however until then a lot o things might change. For now if you are using JIRA and JIRA Agile you are moving to JIRA Software and if you renew the price do not change and all data should be there (you are using cheaper path because new licenses are higher starting from 500 tier; this was done in order to match Cloud licenses).

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

It's not a replacement, it's the next new version.  6.4 is superceded by 7.0.  It's not quite as simple as "JIRA Software is the new name for JIRA + Agile", but it is close and it might be easier to think of it in those terms.

The main difference in terms of licences is the split between Core and Applications now.  Let's say you've currently got JIRA 6.4 and the Agile add-on.  You've got 100 JIRA licences, so you've licenced Agile at 100 users as well, because you have  to. 

When you upgrade to JIRA 7, to answer the main point of the question, yes, it is pretty much an "upgrade", similar to what you do for JIRA 6.1 to 6.4 for example.

After the upgrade though, you'll find you can licence the Core for 100 users still, but as you've only got 25 developers, you can licence Agile for 25 - the other 75, non-technical people don't need Agile, so you can drop their licence now.

There's a really good explanation from @Dave Meyer somewhere, but this airport wi-fi isn't letting me find it!

[Jonas Andersson]

Thanks Nic, wow, great news. Will install 7.0 on a test machine and give it a spin, but i like this idea. Will it go for all addons or only the Atlassian? We now have a 500-user license, and some plugins (think gliffy) are licensed for all 500 but really just used by 15 people..

[Nic Brough -Adaptavist-]

My understanding is that some add-ons will remain add-ons (and work the same way they do now) and others can be migrated to become "applications" which can have the varying levels of licence. I don't know how difficult this would be, but I can see how some things would definitely fall out - things like script-runner or the JIRA toolkit would be add-ons because they're effectively global, but Gliffy is a prime candidate to become an application (as you say - 15 "authors" and 500 people who can just see the resulting pictures)